Cleaning Business Life
Cleaning Business Life, is a weekly podcast co-hosted by Shannon Miller, founder of Klean Freaks University, and Jamie Runco, CEO of Above All Cleaning Company, based in Northern California.
This podcast is dedicated to helping cleaning business owners at every stage, from startup to scaling to 7 figures. Whether you're a new entrepreneur or an established business owner, you'll discover proven strategies, systems, and methods that will help you streamline operations, increase profitability, and grow your business.
Each episode dives deep into essential topics such as:
- Effective business systems and structures that drive growth.
- Product recommendations and tips on using the right tools for the job.
- Expert interviews with industry leaders sharing insights and success stories.
- Q&A sessions where we answer your pressing business questions.
- The **latest trends** shaping the cleaning industry today.
Tune in weekly to level up your cleaning business and stay ahead of the competition!
For additional resources, including Kim's exclusive real estate cleaning packages, visit her website at [purevergreen.com](http://purevergreen.com).
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Want to get a hold of us, please email us at cleaningbusinesslife@gmail.com
Cleaning Business Life
Episode #57 - Safeguarding (Preventing) Your Cleaning Business from Client Poaching: Strategies and Communication Tips for Cleaning Entrepreneurs
Have you ever felt the sting of your hard-earned clients being snatched away by the very staff you trained? This week on Cleaning Business Life, Kimberly Gonzalez and I tackle the all-too-common hazard of client poaching and arm you with strategies to fortify your operations. We discuss the importance of sturdy policies like finder's fees and ironclad contracts, sharing personal stories where these tools have been our saving grace. Charging a $2,500 finder's fee isn't about profit—it's a necessary deterrent reflecting the cost of nurturing a new team member. Our experiences underscore why clear boundaries aren't just helpful; they're essential.
As we continue our candid conversation, the focus shifts to preemptive strategies that ensure your business's protection. Imagine a world where late fees aren't a taboo but a standard practice, reminding clients to respect your time and services. Kimberly and I pull back the curtain on the dual finder's fee system, a policy promoting accountability on both ends of the spectrum. We'll also walk you through crafting a cancellation policy that's as much a shield for your business as it is a declaration of your professional standards. Real-life anecdotes bring these concepts to life, illustrating the power of clearly communicated terms and consequences.
Communication is the thread that binds a successful business together, so let's talk about talking. This episode is peppered with insights on fostering genuine connections, the underestimated power of a voice call, and why a Zoom check-in can go a long way. You'll hear how my own commitment to open dialogue has led to delightful moments, from clients gifting baked goods to heartfelt tokens of appreciation. And as a special treat, join in my excitement for the weekend's anticipated chick availability and the pure joy of gardening. Tune in for these heartfelt stories and practical advice, and remember—it's not just about cleaning; it's about building a community that cleans together.
Questions? Feel free to reach out!
Shannon Miller: cleaningbusinesslife@gmail.com
Join my FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1583362158497744
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIjMz_-9YyiFvNVIgb61iYg
To order All-Natural Cleaning Products: www.purevergreen.com
See Shannon's latest courses: www.KleanFreaksUnversity.com
This show is brought to you by the Maids Network. Want to get serious in your cleaning game? Join my group. It's one of the larger Facebook groups just for cleaning business owners. I look forward to seeing you there.
Speaker 2:I'll be outside.
Speaker 1:Baby babies and brownies. That's what we're talking about.
Speaker 2:Babies, cupcakes and going outside Definitely, those are three wins for sure.
Speaker 1:Baby's cupcakes and going outside. Definitely, those are three wins for sure. Welcome to Cleaning Business Life. We are in episode number 57, 57, 57, 57. And I'm with my wonderful co-host, ms Kimberly Gonzalez. Kimberly, take it away.
Speaker 2:Hey you guys. So first off, I just want to say we love you guys and thank you guys for being our biggest fans. We would love it if you guys can just share, share, share our lovely podcast to other people and to cleaning groups and leave us a review. We love reviews and feedback. We love feedback. Shannon and I take that feedback and we want to learn from it and how we can improve. So, yeah, today we're going to be talking about when customers try to steal your cleaning techs.
Speaker 1:They're kind of the opposite of what we talked about last time In our last episode we discussed what happens when the cleaning tech steals your clients, and now we're going to discuss the opposite side of that, where the client tries to purge your cleaning tax. And again, I reiterate, this is for W-2s only. If you have 1099s you can reach out privately. I'm more than happy to answer questions, but this is catered towards the W-2s so we can kind of help guide you on the situation. And it does happen. It does happen more than we would like, but if you put policies in place where they're aware that if they do something there's going to be a consequence, and how we do that, as we discussed in the other episode, was that you have to make them sign paperwork.
Speaker 1:Paperwork is a great way to communicate effectively. It's a great way to establish boundaries we're really big on boundaries and it's a great way to get an understanding that they are responsible for paying a certain amount of money. So everything's clear, right? There's no? Well, I'm going to pay you $100 this time and I'm going to pay you $150 this time, and I'm going to do this because I didn't feel that you did this. And so I'm going to pay you $90 this time, I, because I didn't feel that you did this and so I'm going to pay you 90 bucks this time. I get to decide that I'm going to pay you. Right, you're not. They're not the evil witch who decides. You know the outcome of your performance singing for your dinner. There has to be policies in place, and when you get big enough and you've had this happen to you enough you'll be like okay, the biggest reason people buy the, the contract bundle, is the cancellation policy. Um, we're actually here to talk about purging and what that entails. Kim, did you ever have this happen to you?
Speaker 2:I've only had it happen to me once, not like the last time where you know I had. You know my employees go to try to steal my clients, but this one I've only had it happen once and they reached out to it and luckily my employee was dedicated to me and she reached out to me right away and let me know what was going on. So I was very, very thankful for that employee because she, like I, love the fact that we had that open communication with with my employees and she was able to come to me and let me know and we let that client go right away, like we didn't even mess around, we just let the client go.
Speaker 1:Right, we had it happen twice. Well, actually I had it three times. The first time is always the one that forces you to take action.
Speaker 2:You're like oh, you got to deal with you got to be handed, you know, before you learn your lesson.
Speaker 1:Right. And you're you did this and the customer denies it. And they're like I don't know what you're talking about. And you're like, yeah, yeah, whatever. Unfortunately, this action has caused you to be 86 for life. So you start to ponder the realities of what's going on. You're like, man, that was labor hours. I missed this. I missed that. Now it's an inconvenience, now a hole in my schedule. I mean all the things that go through your mind. But when you have a policy in place that says, by the way, if you purge my cleaning tech, there will be a finder's fee, which is what we really came to talk about it works out as a win-win for everyone, and the finder's fee needs to be enough where it's an ouch. Right, if you do this, this is going to be an ouch. It's going to be. It's going to be a little. We're not talking $50.
Speaker 2:We're not talking a hundred dollars, we're talking a big out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and there is a formal contract that's written up and or you can just write an invoice that says finder's fee on it and my finder's fee is $2,500. And it's not because I'm going to go around jumping around, going I got $2,500. A nice dinner? Nope, it's too. It costs money to train. It's like $1,200.
Speaker 1:By the time you really get down and you look at what your training dollars are going to, I know there's a lot of people, especially with fast food and minimum wage, we're going to see a lot less employees, a lot less humans in fast food. I don't think they'll ever be able to manage that piece. In the cleaning industry, we're still a human-based industry and we can consciously make decisions. We're robots Not quite there yet.
Speaker 1:So you kind of have that dynamic of what am I going to do should this happen? And it does happen and it's like, oh, this sucks because it's unpleasant. So I created a finder's fee and the finder's fee is a lot because I want it to make an impact and I want to prevent you from grabbing something that isn't entirely yours. But there are the opportunities that happen when you do get paid the finder's fee and there are some steps that you would need to follow, and subsequently for your schedule and then their schedule and what goes on with that. So you didn't have to. Did you ever get paid a finder's fee for any of that stuff?
Speaker 2:No, I just let that client go at that time. But then after that I did put a finder's fee in place and I explained to it, like I explained to it in my my like contract, why I have the finder's fee. And it's to cover the time that was spent for, obviously, training and then spent for hiring, like just like the background work and all the expenses that goes into hiring. So we have that, so it kind of covers all of that, you know. And then having to rehire and having to hire another person, it just gets expensive and you lose that spot for the client as well. So, like that client that you're making money on, you no longer have that income. So then you have to go out and try to get more clients.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's all 100,000% correct With us. When I got paid the two finders fee at $2,500 a pop, I had to adjust the W-2 schedule and we made an agreement that she would only because I tried to work my girls full time, but with this particular exception we just took one of her days off and well, actually with both situations we scaled them back to part-time hours, because the fifth day is always the one that makes the full-time commitment, and then they cleaned for that particular client on that certain day and then we just worked around their schedule. Eventually, I will tell you, after we got the finder's fee, it usually ended up not working out Because, again, they didn't know how to run the back end. Some of them made it a little longer than others, but the employee would come back and go okay, well, it didn't work out with Mrs Smith.
Speaker 1:Can I have my schedule back? And I would have to really kind of, you know, look at the situation and see if it benefited me, right? Because you're building a nest egg your golden goose egg is what my mom calls it and you got to do everything, like you know the golden goose who protects their egg, right? So is this person going to come back and cause more havoc for me. Is this person going to take another client? Is this person going to do this again? Is this person going to do that again? And then you have to look at the client. If the client's going to take one, what makes you think they won't take a second?
Speaker 2:one, you're too nice Like. I got rid of my client right away. I was like nope Right, so nice, we didn't we didn't.
Speaker 1:We didn't always take them back. I think we took one back and then we 86 the other one, and it all depended on how the transaction went down. Sometimes there was bitterness and entitlement attached to it. They felt that they didn't think it was a big deal and usually it's ironically it's always another fellow small business owner who justifies doing it and I'm like come on, let's be honest, you wouldn't like it done to you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, they should know how this works and how-.
Speaker 1:No, it's all about them. So and I've had it happen. So you just have to look at the dynamics of the finder's fee. So there is this form. It says finder's fee. It's mentioned in your welcome paperwork. It says if you find I don't want to say love match, but if you find a match that you totally cannot live without, we are more than happy to make that deal for you.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to turn down money and it is a short-term, small investment versus the long-term of what your actual W-2 can make you. So you have to decide if it's going to be worth it to you, because your cleaning tax can generate 70, 90 grand for you a year if they're working full time. So you have to kind of weigh that out too, as we're talking about all of the different things in the air. So you have to decide if it's going to be beneficial to you or not. And then you have that paperwork and they have to sign and then it's payments due immediately, it's not 30 days and they continue to clean for you and then they decide or they don't decide. It's an immediate transaction. You either do it through a credit card or they cut you a company check or whatever it is, but get payment right away. Don't let them do payment options.
Speaker 2:When you did your finder's fee, Shannon, did you put in like a late fee, so if they were late paying it. Did you start tacking on late fees?
Speaker 1:I typically would end up not getting paid late because I was upfront about it. But I think back to maybe a potential third transaction who was iffy at best. They wanted to have the cleaning tech for free. They didn't understand why they had to go through the whole process. So if you have one of those individuals it's just best to get rid of everybody involved. Unfortunately it sucks, but then you know I like smooth running shifts. I didn't want to have a lot of drama about bitterness or resentment.
Speaker 2:Because you're always going to be wondering in the back of your head like is that employee still trying to? Like, then now poach my other ones? And then it's like vice versa, is that customer gonna try to? You know, come back and try to get my other cleaning techs? Like, even if you switch the cleaning techs out and you get a different one, it's like are they gonna start? So it's always gonna be in the back of your mind like the what ifs.
Speaker 1:Well, I made the cleaning tech pay the finder's fee too, not the $, but there was an ouch, definitely. So there was a mutual understanding that if this connection worked out, that I benefited on both sides. And it was to deter. The whole point of the paperwork is to deter them from taking action that doesn't benefit you. That's what it comes down to, and I've had people challenge me on well, you know, non-compete you can't do this because of that, and they're right. In some instances non-competes can't do this because of that, and they're. They're right.
Speaker 1:In some instances non-competes are nothing in court, and that's fine too. You're not trying to make it to court to take all of your time and all this other stuff you're. If you have to go to court, you're doing it to prove a lesson. It's not about the money, it's all about the lesson you're teaching them so they don't do it again. But but you want to make sure that you're covering your basis.
Speaker 1:So when you have your customers sign a paperwork says I will not purge, I agree not to purge, blah, blah, blah I can't remember the exact wording, I probably should have printed it out and I didn't. And then you have your cleaning tech also sign paperwork says I agree not to purge. It's a preventative measure to protect your what On both sides Assets. So that way it prevents things like this happening and then you don't have to deal with it, because who wants to deal with the unpleasantness of this? So the client pays the $2,500 and the cleaning tech also paid a finder's fee and I can't remember. I think it varied depending on the circumstance. So if I was really like irritated over the whole thing, I think I made them pay 600 bucks.
Speaker 2:You had like a whole you know broke down system of like I'm impressed, shannon, I just got rid of them all. I'm like y'all are going, I don't care go Right, it's just.
Speaker 1:It's just a dynamic to you know, cause I like to give people a long leash and you know, eventually I'll get tired and I'll yank the leash back. But, um, it's just a point of contention to try to figure out what's going to work best for you and your business. Um, and I mentioned at the beginning that the most important reason, besides the purging factor, was the cancellation policy, and we can talk about that in another podcast. But you need to have a cancellation policy and it is mentioned inside of the cleaning contract bundle. And the reason for that is because I've shared the story of how I cleaned for a lady who still lives here for a mere what was it? What did I say? It was like $47.
Speaker 1:Remember her and I would drive up at my little Mini Cooper this was when I was out solo, by myself and I didn't know what I was doing and I cleaned her whole 3,300 square foot house for $47 a week. She made me walk over ice and snow up her stairs. I was not allowed to go through the garage, which was really slippery, so I had to put snow boots on. I had to drive in my normal gear and then I had to put snow boots on. Then I had to walk up the stairs in my snow boots, take my snow boots off, put my regular shoes on. I mean, she was really, she was really over the top and I was aiming to please. I didn't know what I was doing and, um, she was a real treat, wasn't she?
Speaker 1:She, she still lives in town and she's actually called me a couple times and her number comes up. It says 86 for life. So I know not to, like you know, answer the phone and wait. If you're guys, if you're wondering what that is, is when you go to your phone. For those of you who are watching, you can go to your phone and it has the contact right. You go right here and in your contacts, right. So your contact. It'll say like mine, you can see it's Castle Keeper Clean.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you can see it or not, but there's a couple of them in here. I had one. I don't see it now. I might've deleted, deleted it, but it says 86 for life. So I didn't pick up that number. What if that number changed? I'm like I don't care. I don't want to deal with the drama and this person would cancel at the last minute because her girlfriends would come up from Phoenix and they would do lunch. So that was more important than poor Shannon who just took off her shoes, put on her snow boots, took off her snow boots to get in the jacket.
Speaker 1:And it was a lived in house. It was a hard. It was a hard clean. She had three boys and a husband and four dogs, floors, everything was really worn out. It was just. It's just interesting the lessons we learned from these people. But yes, that's another good reason to have the cleaning contract bundle is for the cancellation policy and you get them when you sign the paperwork, because the paperwork is an all in one right. So it covers every, every faucet, except for the cat litter, because I haven't updated it.
Speaker 2:I bet you're a wonderful to do list. No, thank you, sarah.
Speaker 1:Sarah can do it right so please institute a finder's fee. Hopefully you'll never be paid a finder's fee. Hopefully it will just be a preventative measure to save it on both sides, to prevent people from taking action on your business. Um, I don't know why everyone thinks it's so cool to take someone else's employee. It's not. It's not cool no, it's not.
Speaker 2:I'm very thankful, like my business now. I'm just, yeah, I'm very thankful that I have such great you know gals that help me out and stuff like that. So really like like what is it like? Really just try to like know your employees and get to know your clients and you know that can, like I said chan and I said you could pick up on stuff you start noticing something right. You're like that can, like I said Shannon and I said you could pick up on stuff, you start noticing something Right. If you're like not connected and like communicating with them, then you're going to miss stuff. It'll come happen right underneath your nose.
Speaker 1:Right. And then it's like a slap in the face Like how come I didn't see this Right?
Speaker 2:And another way, and Shannon Kimberly told me about this too Right.
Speaker 1:I didn't about this too Right, listen to them. It's. It's um. It's always interesting when things sneak up on you, so spend time with your W2s. Um. Usually you can have an open Q and A session or an open time to talk to somebody at 15 minute. Whatever um scheduled on a Monday, hey, I've got 15 minutes for you. If you need to discuss anything, that's come up. That's a great way and you can do it right over zoom. So you're still seeing their face. You're reading those emotions. Subconsciously, you're listening to the language there's a lot that gets lost.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot gets lost in text messages. You don't see, I mean there's reason why we have six senses, right, it's because we're we're communicating verbally and we're listening. But, oh, it's because we're communicating verbally and we're listening, but we're communicating in other ways. Kim and I are looking at each other you got me Ms Hand Jester, usa, right, and there's a lot going on with the communication that she's reading, that I'm reading, that you would read when you watch this video or listen to the podcast. There's a lot that goes on that gets missed in text messaging messages. A lot of emotion gets missed. People's feelings can get hurt really easy because you're not communicating or conveying or smiling. What's what you're expressing yourself, right? Miscommunication can happen really easily.
Speaker 2:It's we're not the in person I can and like we've been like where we just message back and forth and stuff gets, you know, misconscued, and that's when we have to like get on the phone and talk to each other, or we send voice messages to talk to each other so we can like clear up stuff because something wasn't you know right. So that's where it always is better to have the voice and hand gestures and you know, talk right, talk Right.
Speaker 1:And I like I guess I'm just old fashioned this way and it's just because of who I am. But even then, even when I'm in other groups, I will put. People are like you, put your phone number everywhere. I'm like everybody has my phone number.
Speaker 2:First of all, if you're not behaving. First of all, if you're not behaving.
Speaker 1:It's not a secret. My phone number is listed everywhere, but oftentimes I am so busy with what's going on. It's actually faster to communicate over the phone than it is for me to pick up a text message. Do a voice to text, read the voice to text, make sure there's no spelling errors. Did I capitalize that? It's just like way easier just to send you know, to do it over the phone and people don't want to. They think I'm going to do something to them. I'm like I'm offering you my advice for free. You can do it whenever you want with it.
Speaker 2:So, like, make sure you guys are like communicating with your employees and you're communicating with your clients like the right way, not just over texts and over emails can even get, you know, get misconstrued I can't even talk.
Speaker 1:Misconstrued, yes I used to do um, and this is before I got really big. When I got really big, I used to send others to do this for me. Um, but we would do house checks. So once um, once a quarter or once a month, randomly. We would do sections by sections and the person would just go out and all they did was just love on the doggies and kitties. But they would make house visits.
Speaker 1:It does a lot of things psychologically. It tells the employee that you're watching because they know that you're going to be looking through the house to make sure they got everything. And it tells the client that you're present in your business. As you get larger and larger and larger, you actually won't even know who you've never met your top 10% of your clientele base and that's good. That means that you're almost entirely absentee. But when you're smaller you can do it yourself, and when you get bigger you can actually have a trainer go out for the day and do house checks, and it doesn't have to be all the time just randomly, like when your schedule starts to get a little bumpy, do house checks. It's a great way to love on dogs and cats all day long. I mean they're like hey, how are you, mrs smith oh my gosh, my sister, she had this.
Speaker 2:Then you find out what's going on, the dynamics of and maybe they'll bake you some brownies or some yummy brownies are good, they would feed you lunch, um, or you know, one of them actually knitted my littles um little knitted snow caps.
Speaker 1:They were too small, but they were. It was a very nice jester, all kinds. You just never know. Or you'll hear that they're doing a yard sale because they're downsizing and they have all these vintage Chinese artifacts. You sound like me. We're all babe.
Speaker 2:Annunciation I promise Shannon and I have had no wine this morning Water.
Speaker 1:No, no wine, just coffee. But there's you, just you. You're still present in their lives indirectly, which gives you just a touch point with your finger to tell them that you are there if necessary. I picked up three clients this week, and one of them I actually went out to go meet while the cleaning tech was there and I said you know, if you ever have an issue with quality, please reach out my. You know my door's always open. Blah, blah, blah and she goes. You know, we've tried eight different cleaning companies and you're the first one to say that I was like I am how it should be like having that communication have your door open, but still set those boundaries.
Speaker 2:Get those agreements in place for both sides and just really set your standards and what you want right.
Speaker 1:So that's how you prevent your clients from purging your cleaning tax and, obviously, cancellation, all the other stuff that comes with the contracts. But that's the starting point to making you a professional. It makes you more communicative. You can put your branding all over the pictures. Obviously, check your spelling. I might even have a spelling error in there. There could be a red herring I put in there intentionally. Who knows? You'll have to find out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you guys want branding on it, reach out to me and I can brand it for you and make it like yours and make it personal.
Speaker 1:But Kimberly's good with that stuff. Yes, if you have any questions, please reach out again. If you're, I'm sorry. Oh, the email address. What is the? Oh? It's cleaning business life. C L E A N I N G. Business life at gmailcom. I have to actually remember that, cause I have nine email accounts. I'm like what is the email address? Which one is that? Which one is it? So? Yes, cleaningbusinesslifeatgmailcom. If you are interested in sponsorship or any form of advertisement, please hit us up. We are still looking. We have a couple of spots still open for that, so if you're interested, let us know. We would prefer cleaning related things.
Speaker 2:Cleaning related. So if you're not cleaning related things, also cleaning related.
Speaker 1:So if you're not cleaning related, we might consider it. It just depends on what it is, but we're really looking for cleaning related.
Speaker 2:Yeah, reach out to us, you guys. We don't bite, we promise.
Speaker 1:Definitely. It's like learning how to clean those chicken toilets, right.
Speaker 2:I want one. Oh, I have to tell, cause I know the listeners know I'm kind of like chicken crazy. When you posted those, mark goes. Don't get any ideas, just put it on the back list. I know I'm like chicken. And then it was like last, we just got a new Murdoch. So this is dangerous.
Speaker 2:I'm going to tell you guys, this is you guys know me for my chickens. Last Saturday they had we just got a brand new Murdoch's that built like literally I'm not joking you 10 minutes from my house. And if anybody and Murdoch's for the people who don't know is a feed store, correct? Yeah, it's like a feed store. They've got ammo there, they've got some clothing, they've got A cow ranch or tractor supply. Yeah, and those of you that know me, nothing's around us, like we live in like a tiny little town, so country. Yeah, for us to go anywhere, it takes us at least 20 to 30 minutes to get somewhere, and they're building a whole new area, literally 10 minutes from my house, and they built a new Murdoch's. So they had a thing where it was fill a bucket on last Saturday. It was like fill a bucket and get 20% off. So guess what was my on my mind? Chickens, and feed ammo.
Speaker 1:Oh, chickens and ammo. Yes, that would make sense I would like.
Speaker 2:The two necessities that I feel like I need is the chicken and the ammo, and my husband is like he's like you're not filling a bucket with chicks, kimberly, so well ammo is getting a discount off.
Speaker 1:Ammo is awesome, oh it's expensive.
Speaker 2:I know I'm excited, but they ran out of chicks. I was just there the other day and I was so sad, you guys. My heart was broken. They were out of chicks, but I heard they're going to get more chicks. So guess where I'm going to go today. I will let you guys know when I get my chicks. Definitely, thank you guys. We hope you have a wonderful weekend.
Speaker 2:Enjoy the weather, if you guys are. Hope you have a wonderful weekend. Enjoy the weather. If you guys are having beautiful weather, go out and garden, and I think we're gonna get to 80 here, which is really weird for us right now. Right, I'll take it, I'm gonna go out in the garden awesome awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, it's good to hear from everybody. You guys take care. Cleaning business life is sponsored by Pure Evergreen Cleaning Products. That's P-U-R-E-V-E-R-G-R-E-E-Ncom. Pure Evergreen Cleaning Products.
