Cleaning Business Life

Episode #56 - How to prevent Cleaning Tech's from purging your clients

• Shannon Miller

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Pop the champagne and gather 'round as Cleaning Business Life hits a momentous milestone with our 56th episode—a celebration of one year sharing the nitty-gritty of running a cleaning business. Yet amidst the festivities, we take a hard look at the darker side of our industry: the betrayal of employees poaching clients. I'll open up about the sting of discovering a trusted lead employee siphoning off clients for years, a revelation that reshaped my approach to business protection. Kimberly Gonzalez joins me, bringing her own tale of deception that underscores the necessity for solid systems and the complexities of non-compete agreements, especially for 1099 workers.

Moving beyond the cautionary tales, we examine the bedrock of any service enterprise: trust and integrity. The character of a leader casts long shadows, influencing culture and success in profound ways. I'll discuss the painstaking process of crafting and regularly updating service agreements, learning from missteps like that infamous cat litter incident, to ensure that your business stands on firm ethical and legal ground. As we reminisce over past episodes that struck a chord with you, our listeners, we also look forward to sharing more heartfelt insights from the frontline trenches of the cleaning world. Join us on this episode, not just in celebration, but in solidarity as we arm ourselves with knowledge and shared experiences to fortify our businesses against the unexpected.

Questions? Feel free to reach out!

Shannon Miller: cleaningbusinesslife@gmail.com

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See Shannon's latest courses: www.KleanFreaksUnversity.com

Speaker 1:

This show is brought to you by the Maids Network. Want to get serious in your cleaning game? Join my group. It's one of the larger Facebook groups just for cleaning business owners. I look forward to seeing you there. Hello everybody, Welcome, welcome, welcome to Cleaning Business Life. We are on episode number 56, if you can believe it. Oh my God, it's just awesome. And I'm joined by my wonderful co-host, Ms Kimberly Gonzalez. Kimberly, take it away.

Speaker 2:

Hey everybody, welcome. I can't believe it's been a year. We've been doing a podcast for a year Right, that's nuts. I just can't even fathom that. So if you guys are just listening you guys have and you're just jumping on to this podcast, make sure you go back like a year ago when we first started, so you can see when we first started. We've come a long ways, I feel.

Speaker 1:

We have and we're going to have a celebratory episode coming up here in the near future and we're going to recap some of our top subjects that we discussed and that's pretty exciting.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, we're going to have a party with us. So today we're going to be talking about what happens when a cleaning tech, your cleaning tech or employee takes your clients and we're just, yeah, we're going to talk about that dreaded moment when you hire that cleaning tech and they go out and they just grab your clients. Have you had that happen before, shannon? I'm sure you have.

Speaker 1:

Let's preface this this topic is specifically for W-2s. We don't, you can't do anything for your 1099s, because they're not employees.

Speaker 1:

So, I'm not going to go on my soapbox here, but there's a gray area. So there's a lot of people and I don't want to go too deep into this who will treat their 1099s like W-2s and make them sign a non-compete, which is illegal, Because then you're treating them like employees and if you're ever audited it's a big no-no. So, yes, I have had this happen. This happened. There is the infamous time where my lead employee of five years decided that she was going to make a grab for the majority of my weekly clients and, unbeknownst to me, it took me a while to realize what was going on. I entirely trusted this individual. The only thing that she did not have was the combo to the safe, and thankfully I never did give it to her, because she probably would have taken the cash in there too. But she took a lot of business from me and how she did it and I won't go too deep into the story because you guys have all heard me talk about it she convinced people that she was the victim and I was this evil, wicked witch of the West and I did all these awful things.

Speaker 1:

And it was a client who had a lot of bronzes and art pieces in their house and they called me up one day and said hey, we need to talk to you, and I was like my heart stopped. I'm like did we break a bronze? What happened? You just need to come over and we need to talk to you. I was like, and all you can think of is all of the curse words that you can ever imagine are in your head. You're trying to be calm, You're like trying to be professional and you're like, okay, Cause then you want to resolve the issue right, so you want to go right away, fix whatever it is your heart's like beating out of your chest and you feel like you're all sweaty and and we uh we did meet the the following afternoon and I went over there and they served me a glass of wine, which was an unusual behavior, so I was like, oh my god, they must have broke something really bad.

Speaker 1:

They proceeded to tell me that my, my top employee, um, was making a grab and was saying really awful things for me. They were the only ones out of. I believe it was 82 clients she walked off with. That is a lot.

Speaker 1:

To tell me that, hey, this is what's up, and the worst part and you guys have all heard me mention this too is my very own cousin, who I was forced to hire, helped her do this to me, which has made me banned. And my cousins and my aunties and my uncles still live here in town and I am not allowed to participate in any holiday or family gathering because of this whole situation. But that's a very short speech version, so that's what that happens, and from that experience I have learned that you need to put systems in place to make your life much more pleasant and not as stressful as it was for me, cause I still had $20,000 a week payrolls at that time, so I had to. It wasn't fair for me to go. By the way, I don't have any cash to pay you guys. You have to wait until I figure this out.

Speaker 1:

I had to go to my husband and go down to the safe. I don't have any cash to pay. You guys, you have to wait until I figure this out. I had to go to my husband and go down to the safe. I'm like I have to take money out of the safe and they're like what. I mean, he was like what and I go, and I had to explain and there was silence on the other side of that, because it wasn't fair that the vendors and the employees and everybody else not get paid. It wasn't their fault, it was ultimately mine. I believed and trusted this individual. So that's the short version of what went down. What about you, Kim?

Speaker 2:

I've had it happen to me twice and it was when I first started. The first time was when I very, very first started. They the same situation. They started bad mouthing me in front of all the clients and it was like they came to me. And then the next thing I know, they're starting their own cleaning company and I see them, you know, marketing and advertising it, and none of my clients at that time said anything. So I lost, like you, I lost a lot of clients and then so during that time, I had like put the systems in place and, um, then I had one other person do that, which is sad Cause I'm like, I'm a nice person, I'm a nice person, I love to give and I love to help people. So it was like it kind of like broke my heart, but somebody that you know, I invested in and trusted would do that. And then that's the second time. This is when the um my client reached out to me. When my clients reached out to me and told me right away what was going on.

Speaker 1:

Right and thank God for those individuals, because you know you just think that everything's fine and they're. They don't think everything's fine and then they justify it.

Speaker 2:

I call them my diamond clients because they're rare.

Speaker 1:

They are rare and there are certain telltale signs and please learn from our experiences that indicate that something is wrong, so that your company culture should be that you know you're not. Obviously this would make sense, but we don't have a lot of common sense as a society that you just wouldn't badmouth your boss. I mean it's not okay. I know you see it a lot on TikTok and I hate my job, but I'm not going to quit. They're going to have to fire me and then they'd make this big production out of you know, not quitting. I'm like if you don't like your job, life is too short. It's like move along, don't make everyone else miserable. So learn that.

Speaker 1:

I mean, when I had them come and tell me that you know something was wrong, like I said I, I had them come and tell me that you know something was wrong. Like I said, I thought I believed it to be a damage claim that they were going to have to file, and it didn't sit well. I didn't sleep very well, it was very upsetting for me, even though I smiled on my face, but it happened, and how we ended up catching her this is a telltale sign too, is this is when I had company cars and you guys have all heard the story where she was driving my company car to service her own clients. She was using she was using the laundry in my office because she is too lazy and too cheap to go to a laundromat and we would. My husband was the one who noticed it, because every time someone came or exited the, the iPad would alert him of movement inside the office. But she was always doing laundry. I'm like what's going on? This is when I didn't make them do their laundry.

Speaker 1:

At this point we were still doing laundry on site at my office and it was just an interesting dynamic. So look for the telltale signs. Make sure your company culture is with you and it's not a winner. Take all. I know that our society kind of pushes along with every man for themselves and we won't discuss all of the defects of our society, but there is a certain dynamic and ultimately, with this individual who shall not be named, like Harry Potter, right, so-and-so shall not be named she, she just got great. She didn't hold on to the like 82 clients, or whatever it was, for very long. They ended up dropping off the schedule because she didn't know how to run Guess what the backend of her business.

Speaker 2:

All the hard work that we have to do, the backend that they don't see. And it's like I always say check in, check in with your employees. That's huge, because if you don't check in with them regularly, you need to just make sure that they're happy. Talk to them, ask them a question. You know like hey, how's it going? Really, just build that relationship and check in with them, because if you don't, you're not going to see different signs, like you, that something's off with them. You'll be like something's off with them, what's going on, and then that's you could start seeing these little signs, like Shannon was saying.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you can see the signs. And there's also a preventative measure that you can institute in your business to protect your investment. Your investment, your number one investment, is your cleaning tech. They're the number one income producer for your business, not your office staff, not your office manager, it is your cleaning tech. They're the number one income producer for your business, not your office staff, not your office manager, it is your cleaning techs. And your second source of income are your clients. So you have to have a stop sign on both sides. It says you are not allowed to do this and if you do, there's going to be a consequence, and part of what that is is um, you have to have an agreement in place. Kim, did you have an agreement in place?

Speaker 2:

Not when I first started, nope, I didn't have one either. Yep, I think that's the biggest mistake. I think when you guys start your cleaning company, you have to get that agreement in place like right away, and I like the fact that you know Shannon offers that. That you have that, it's like ready to go and it's worth it, you guys, because when you have that agreement put in place, it sets those boundaries up between both sides it does and it makes people think twice.

Speaker 1:

now there is when you have your agreement in place. You obviously have to have a employment contract and they have to sign it and they have to understand what they're signing.

Speaker 1:

so there are several points when I had W-2s that they had to initial certain sentences, like when you buy a car, right, check here, check here, sign your initials here and then you sign at the bottom with the date right, and then, when you take on your clients, it also mentions in a polite manner that hey, we spend a lot of money investing in these employees for training. It's expensive to run a business as we are and there'll be a purging charge. Basically, I don't remember how I have it worded in my contract, I'd actually have to look at it but it basically it says hey, if you take my cleaning tech from me, or if my cleaning tech tries to take you from me, there's going to be a consequence. So there's a consequence on both sides of the spectrum, so that you're stopping, you're trying to prevent the action that they might be to take. And there is a point in time and we all have this happen, whether you're in business for yourself, whether you're working for someone else.

Speaker 1:

When I first got into this industry, I worked for Marymaids. I'm not shy about it, I've said it over and over and over again. I worked right after Barbara. I worked for Jean and Bruce, and I don't remember the new owner. I can't remember what her name is. She's down in Scottsdale and I believe it might have been sold since then as well. But when I left to go, you have to decide whether you're going to be, you know, the single entity who has integrity above all, because we are a trust-based industry, or you're going to be the non-integrity individual who grabs. And if you're doing it there, what else are you taking Right? Because you could be a shoplifter, you could be all of these things that are not morally correct.

Speaker 2:

Stealing agreements. You know stealing different. You know advice of. You know you worked with a coach and you take their information. You turn around and sell it.

Speaker 1:

We see that a lot in my industry.

Speaker 2:

Stealing graphics. You know like if you design something and you put something together and somebody steals it, it starts a pattern. So start off.

Speaker 1:

So, I guess what I'm getting down to is there's two types of people. There's the people who want to operate with trust and integrity because we're a trust-based industry, and then there's the other people who are just here for the quickie cash, and that's fine too, I get it, but there's no integrity. With the quickie cash, they're not building something great that they can sell or leave to their family, and you have to decide what kind of individual you are. I'm not going to sit here and pass judgment or say you're wrong and I'm right and any other stuff. I'm just making awareness that there is a gray area in our industry and it happens in a lot of of industries, especially service-based, where the individual thinks they know better than you know, than their senior, right? What is it? There's actually a tale um, I think it's a fork lore. I'm having a brain fart in the japanese culture and it's about that. The teacher, um, you know that she moves on and the student becomes a teacher, but there's a dynamic that has to happen before the student becomes the teacher. There isn't. I'm going to do this and I'm going to take all your stuff and then I'm going to run with it. That's not how, typically you know, there's bows and arrows and the whole thing, but you have to decide what kind of business owner you're going to be and if you're going to operate with integrity. And if you're going to operate with integrity, I believe it trickles down to your staff. So if you show them integrity, they will learn from you that integrity is important and trust is also important too. So, you know, I believe that leadership comes from the top and it goes down, and they are a direct reflection of you and your interface.

Speaker 1:

I won't talk about customer service here. I have lots of customer service. I can have a whole podcast just based on customer service experiences. It's like it's awful right now out there. So make sure that you are operating with integrity and that you're having both your cleaning tax and your clients sign paperwork. So let's get down to the nitty gritty, right. So you said you came up with paperwork. Did you buy your paperwork? Did you create your own? How did your paperwork come into evolution?

Speaker 2:

Like I'm like one of those people where I try to think of everything, like even my staff. Right now they are like how do you think of this, kimberly? You think of like every single thing, and I'm just one of those people where I just like jot stuff down and I think of every incident that could happen, the what ifs, and then that's how I came up with my agreement. I just put stuff together and thought of every situation that could happen and then, throughout the years, I tweaked it. I'm sure you did the same, because everything happens, so you find something new that happens. Then you add that. So by the time that you're done, with your agreement.

Speaker 1:

it's like a novel it is. And my latest one was cat litter. I had. I had a someone don't get me wrong, I love kitties. We don't have kitties cause I have birds. But I'm at the point now it is your responsibility as the homeowner to clean up the cat litter prior to the arrival of the cleaning tech. It is not the cleaning tech's responsibility to pick up the 50 million other pieces that you missed, because you picked up the carpet and dripped all over the bathroom floor, across the carpet, across the floor, across the kitchen floor and out the front door.

Speaker 2:

That's actually in my agreement. That was in my agreement was the whole cat litter thing, like, if you have cat litter, then we need to use your vacuum Like for that area. We will not use our vacuum to cross contaminate to other homes, even though we sanitize in between homes. So yeah, that was in our agreement. That's a good one.

Speaker 1:

It is just recent and it just took the one individual who thought that she was above it all and didn't understand because she was already paying us top dollars so subsequently why we just couldn't do that one extra thing.

Speaker 2:

I started laughing, like you know that's not in our job description.

Speaker 1:

You just go what. But yes, that's the latest in the grays and I tell people I told this to someone yesterday. I spent some time on the phone with somebody and like, for example, my move out cleaning. Every single line item in my move out cleaning contract has been a blender. Yes, a blender that I have made in my business, usually caused by guess what A real estate agent. So if you're a real estate agent, I love you, but I don't. It's just like I've had some bad experiences with real estate agents so and I'm thankful for them now, because now I have a solid, ironclad contract that has been to court over and over and over again, but it was painful going through the process of being in a hard way, right, so you made your own, I made my own. I actually sell it.

Speaker 1:

It's in the contract bundle and what you do with this contract bundle is you have your welcome paperwork and you can. You know you get it. You can copy and paste it. It's really low tech for a lot of reasons, because a lot of us are still very low tech. You just copy and paste the pieces that you like, you plop them into a document, you edit and do all your stuff. Make it yours. It's entirely legal for you to do that. I want you to do that.

Speaker 1:

And then you put your name and anything else that you might want to like I don't have the cat litter and then the contracts that I have for sale, just make a mental note and then you make it yours and you give one to your W-2. It says you know, this is the agreement upon hiring, this is, you know, my intellectual property. This is this, this is my cleaning stuff, this is my company cars, this is what we do with keys, this is what we do with all these things. Right, and then you also give a welcome package to your client and the client sees the page. It says we spend a lot of money, a lot training our cleaning techs to make them professionals. If you are going to purge and I've had people pay me because they absolutely loved whoever it was- You're like.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for paying the finder's fee for me.

Speaker 1:

It's $2,500 and people go what? And it's, it's enough of an ouch to go well, I signed this grant. I've had people tell me, no, F off, I'm not signing it, and I'm like, well, they're more than likely to steal my cleaning tech because it's an investment. So you have to decide. But that's how you eliminate the differences and we'll be talking a little bit more about the details of the cleaning contract and why you need to have cleaning contracts and it's not to like oh line one, you missed. Oh, two, you didn't pick up. And three, you know it's a boundary perimeter so that people don't overstep and ask you to do weird things Like can you clean out the hubbles in my cabinet? No, how about my Picasso? Can you dust that? No, we won't touch the Picasso either the dead animals on the wall and right, the dead animals or whatever creature.

Speaker 1:

We had a lady in Paulding and I had a local cleaner out there and she sent me pictures. Her cat was a hunter and he used to bring in gifts and they were still sometimes half alive and the little baby rabbits, especially in the spring, and you feel really bad and you're like cats are cats, but I don't want to clean it up after they're done playing with it. It's your job, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So, like, if you guys are starting out, please get this all put in place Like immediately. We're trying to save you guys from a lot of headaches.

Speaker 1:

Right. Or if you don't want to pay the price for my contracts, I'm sure you can DIY it. I'm at the point in my. I'm older, so I want to. I just want to you tell me to go from A to B. I don't want to sit there and invent the wheel. I am not a young person anymore. I don't have the extra 10, 20 hours it takes to research and ruminate and think about I want, I just want to go on to the next thing. I don't want to sit there and figure out.

Speaker 1:

What does she mean by purging, or a service fee, or a finder's fee? What is that right? So just make yourself easier on yourself. You decide whether it works for you. Pinterest is the largest search engine out there. My only request is that if you do buy my product, that you don't buy it to resell it. It does say that in there. You have that in your agreement. So that's my only contingency, other than I want you to copy and paste and make it your own Exactly. So, yeah, that's a, having your client sign something, and there can be um, there can be some apprehension over having someone sign it and they'll flat out tell you I'm not signing it, say okay, well, you know, if you change your mind, it's a, it's a deal breaker, right.

Speaker 2:

It's like dating somebody we're not going to clean for you. Sorry, it's a deal breaker, right? It's like dating somebody we're not going to clean for you.

Speaker 1:

Sorry, if I were to date somebody I'm not married but if I was to date somebody and you didn't like dogs, that would be a deal breaker for me, because I have dogs and I'm not getting rid of them. It's just a thing, right, birds or cats or whatever your thing, is.

Speaker 1:

That's a deal breaker. The dog thing is huge, it's a deal breaker. The dog thing is huge, it's a deal breaker, sorry. So those are some of the things that you would have to have them sign, and some of them are going to flat out tell you no and most are going to be like most of the new ones are going to be okay. This is what I have to do to get your service no problem. And then there, I mean we didn't really talk about getting your legacy clients to sign paperwork, but I guess we can do that on another episode.

Speaker 2:

Yep, I mean we actually have that for the next episode.

Speaker 1:

I think so. Legacy clients, I'm making a note so we can put that on the next episode. Anything else that we failed to cover? I think we got it all.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, please reach out to us, email us. Uh, you know, message us if we have any. You know feedback, um, be sure to review us. We love reviews and share, share, share, share our podcasts and cleaning groups. Share it on your page. We just want to be out there to help the world, don't we, shannon?

Speaker 1:

Definitely. And um, we are still, uh, accepting applications for sponsorships. So if that is something that you dig and you want to advertise with us, please hit us up. We're more than willing to look you over and see if you're a good fit.

Speaker 2:

Thanks, you guys for joining us. Have a wonderful day, Ta-ta.

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Jamie Runco

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Shannon Miller

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Kimberly Gonzales

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