Cleaning Business Life
Cleaning Business Life
is your go-to weekly podcast, co-hosted by Shannon Miller, founder of Klean Freaks University, and Jamie Runco, CEO of Above All Cleaning Company in Northern California.
This podcast is designed to support cleaning business owners at every stage of their journey—from launching a startup to scaling to seven figures. Whether you're just starting out or already running an established business, you'll find actionable strategies, proven systems, and expert advice to help you streamline operations, boost profitability, and grow with confidence.
In each episode, we cover critical topics like:
- Building effective systems and structures that drive sustainable growth.
- Product reviews and recommendations to equip your team with the best tools.
- Exclusive interviews with industry leaders sharing tips and success stories.
- Q&A sessions addressing your most pressing business challenges.
- The latest industry trends to keep you ahead of the curve.
Join us weekly to elevate your cleaning business and gain the edge you need to thrive in a competitive market!
Want to get a hold of us, please email us at cleaningbusinesslife@gmail.com
Cleaning Business Life
CBL Episode #101-Sisters in Business: How Natasha & Tamera Grew Their Cleaning Company, Cleancation
Join us as we uncover the inspiring journey of Natasha and Tamara, the sister duo at the helm of Cleancation, as they transform their cleaning business from its modest Jamaican roots to a flourishing enterprise in North Jersey. Their story is a testament to resilience and empowerment, with a strong focus on supporting their team, especially single mom contractors, to reach new personal heights. Natasha and Tamara reveal the tools and strategies that have propelled their success, like the Go High Level platform, while candidly discussing its limitations. Their experience offers invaluable insights into the balance between embracing technology and maintaining a personal touch in today's business landscape.
Discover the innovative hybrid model that Natasha and Tamara employ, blending employees, contractors, and subcontractors to navigate the complexities of the cleaning industry. From narrowing service areas to avoid resource exhaustion to strategically expanding into neighboring states, they share lessons learned from overcoming initial challenges. With a keen awareness of the industry's unexpected hurdles—like the laborious task of wallpaper removal or the mishaps of shower door accidents—they emphasize the crucial need for understanding the scope of each project and ensuring quality control.
Throughout the episode, Natasha and Tamara open up about the emotional and operational challenges of running a business while highlighting the importance of celebrating personal and team successes. Their discussion on balancing automation with human interaction in customer service offers a refreshing perspective, urging businesses to recognize the irreplaceable value of personal connections. As the sisters reflect on their leadership journey, they inspire us to align our personal goals with our business objectives, creating a positive impact on our teams and the communities we serve.
Natasha & Tamara Can be reached at cleanation.com
It can be crowed when trying to figure out who you are going to learn from
Erica Paynter is the brains behind My Virtual Bookkeeper, a bookkeeping firm for cleaning companies, and the creator of Clean Co. Cash Flow Academy and the Clean Co. Collective. She’s on a mission to help cleaning business owners make sense of their numbers without boring them to tears! Erica’s all about turning messy books into profit-packed powerhouses.
Up your cleaning game, join over 6000 Cleaning Business Owners most of whom are located here in the United States.
Questions? Feel free to reach out!
Shannon Miller: cleaningbusinesslife@gmail.com
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See Shannon's latest courses: www.KleanFreaksUnversity.com
Natasha and Tamara, sisters and co-founders of Cleancation, were born and raised in the wonderful country of Jamaica. Necessity sparked their journey into the cleaning business. With a background in computer science and electronics for Tamara, and accounting and business administration for Natasha, they brought years of experience in customer service and business operations to their venture. By working tirelessly, they replaced their full-time jobs within the first year of Cleancation's formation. By year two, they doubled their income and by year three they hit six figures. However, the sisters faced challenges, including burnout and multiple injuries, which forced them to reassess their strategy. They transitioned from doing everything themselves, including the removal of wallpaper, to building a team of employees and contractors, ultimately scaling Clincation to consistent 20 to 30K months, while regaining balance of their own personal lives. Yay, today Clincation is not just a business. It's a platform for empowering others. Empowering others.
Speaker 1:Their contractors, many of whom are single moms, have achieved remarkable milestones, from buying their first cars to funding their children's educations. Driven by that mission to change people's lives through opportunities and impact, natasha and Tamara aim to inspire others with their story of resilience, growth and giving back. On a personal note, natasha is a mom of two channels her love of cooking, adventure and family into her work, while Tamara, a self-proclaimed gadget geek and photography enthusiast, brings her tech savvy and operational genius to the business. Together, they're changing how the world cleans one cleaning at a time. Wording in progress. Welcome, natasha and Tamara. I'm so excited to have you guys as guests and welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:It's so great to be here as well, definitely. So we invited you there was a whole query over the guest process to be on the podcast. So we kind of chatted over the phone to decide what we're going to talk about and, um, there was a couple of things I thought were very valid for our audience. So we're going to get those covered. And let's talk about your website and high level first. So we were chatting before the show started and, um, you guys had mentioned that you had redone the website. Then you had paid somebody at high level I've seen them all over facebook. What was that process like? And if you don't mind telling us what it costs you for others to know for in the future so they can budget for it, okay, not a problem.
Speaker 3:So with go high level it's pretty much an all-in-one system.
Speaker 2:So you can get your website done.
Speaker 3:You can do email marketing campaigns. You can monitor your facebook ads. If you're running facebook ads, you can also do Google. So we're still pretty new to it so we haven't really mastered everything, but so far what we love about it is that it kind of replaces us subscribing to multiple different systems and it keeps everything connected. It costs with different different features, but pretty much if you just only had $100, you could get the most basic and you still have a pretty good cohesive system working with. The only downside to it that I've seen so far is that we still have to have a different scheduling platform for jobs because, um, go hell of a does to do dispatching right. That is what we need the most as as cleaning business owners it's frustrating that.
Speaker 1:I remember when get jobber came onto the scene, it was like the newest thing since butter on bread and I was you guys have all heard me talk about it Like I legitimately would have to call 50, 50 clients, 50 to 60 clients a day, cause that's how much we were doing, volume wise. Hi, this is Shannon from castle keeper cleaning. I just want to let you know your scheduled appointment is blah, blah, blah. And then when get jobber came on the scene, I was like oh my God. So I was like oh my God. So I was like this is such a game changer. And then they slowly added more features, but I haven't seen one thing that integrates it all, and it would be nice if they would do that.
Speaker 1:I don't know if the industry will go that way or not. I guess we'll see, but I've, I've, I bawled. High level, high level. I've been curious. I see the girl with the fingers pointing up. That's her, and I think you can also. They have a version that you can buy and sell as your own. Is that my understanding as well?
Speaker 3:Yes, that's the white label version, which, which is 497 per month, and then there's a. There's an additional set of fee I think off, and I don't want to quote the price, but I think I saw 1500 but that's a one-time cost, right, so they'll pop. They'll pretty much do any any customization that you need, and if you need something that is very large scale, then you know that's additional money. But pretty much what. What? What you have with the three, with the 297 plan, is that you can have multiple accounts underneath your main business, but when the person logs in it's going to show as go high level. But when you do the white label it would come up as clean freaks university, if that's the name of your company. So you get that branding out there and they remove all of all of go high level from it. So it's just your company as the focus it's.
Speaker 1:it's very tempting from my perspective, but I'm like do I want to add another thing? As entrepreneurs, especially as women, we just keep gobbling it all up. We're like, okay, I'm going to do this extra thing, and it's just like, realistically, a, do you have time to create your own agency? Because a lot of people do. My frustration with the cleaning industry in general is that everybody is suddenly a cleaning expert. I'm like so how many houses have you cleaned? Yes, or you know the the everything.
Speaker 1:The new hot thing is the remote model, and I've seen people and I will not name names cause I'm not going to call them out, but they're, you know, they're down in Mexico or they're in Paris and they, they, they offer the remote model. But the reality is is that it can't. Unless you have smooth operations and good hires, it's not going to work. You're going to crash and burn. But it's frustrating because they have really high expectations for cleaning techs and I'm like you have to have bit.
Speaker 1:At least you should clean a couple of token houses so you understand what it's like for the cleaning tech to engage with the client, what it's like for the cleaning tech, especially when you work in a big city. You have to carry your gear up multiple stairs or in a ladder, then you have to find parking. I mean, there's all of this stuff that goes on and you just don't know. Or what it's like for a cleaning tech to have to go back and fix a discrepancy, what it's like to have to engage with a client who's upset because they expected you to walk on water when in reality we never walk on water.
Speaker 1:I am glad you mentioned that, since our topic today is contractors.
Speaker 3:So we've had a couple of them reach out to us and we're actually working with two as a subcontractor. Um, just because it's closer to us so we can take on the additional job. Um, however, when they approach us and the questions they're asking us and when they they give us a job, it's like oh, you know, the house is 3 000 square feet, it's a street. But actually no, they, they don't even tell you the square feet. They say you know it's three bedroom, two bathroom. You know the price is 120 to do the cleaning and when you pull up the address, you see that it's three thousand square foot. I said so recently we just asked one.
Speaker 3:I'm like hey, have you ever done the cleaning yourself? You say no, I just do the the sales part.
Speaker 1:oh, it's always that. Oh no, I would never clean. I'm like I don't. I know it's nice for people to pave the way. I totally like that, but the reality, we are a service-based industry. We're very human oriented. I don't care if they have robots or not, but it's true, when you ask them if they've cleaned, then they always say, oh, I've never cleaned a toilet and I'm like I don't know what to tell you. And you can't. For the listeners who do want to run a total remote model, you can do it without cleaning. You have to have a grip of cash to cover your payroll because you can't bootstrap it. You can bootstrap it the other way, but if you want to run a total remote model, you can't. And I know some people do offer bootstrapping. I've never seen it be successful. Throwing out, crying in the corner, going ah right, what's happening? 3,000 square feet for $1.20. Woo, that's just brutal. Yeah, I'm assuming you turned them down right. You didn't try to make it work. No, no, no.
Speaker 2:Thank goodness, you know, the last one that reached out. We did have to kind of break it down and educate them a little bit. You know, um, you know, because they were like, you know it should, it should take about an hour and a half, two hours max, you know. So, you know, maybe that's the max that we'll give and we're like, okay, we were just like listening, I'm like, yeah, newbie to ourselves, you know, and then we kind of broke it down for him, you know, and let him know. You know, you know, that's not how it really works. We understand where you're coming from and try to just kind of piece things together for him so that he could understand. You know, um, you know they tend to reach back out and, you know, ask questions just to get a little advice to go back to deal with and handle their clients, you know. But you know we enjoy helping.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I was removing the AI off there. I hate when it pops up and you're like, and then it doesn't disappear like it's supposed to, I'm like, okay, wait. So yeah, dealing with newbies in the industry and everybody is getting into the industry because they're expected us to grow from 300 billion to 600 billion in the next like two to five years. I think AI is going to be really prevalent with how we do a lot of things. I've seen a lot of changes in the last 12 months, like I finally have just nailed down chat GPT what about you guys?
Speaker 3:I'm still working on it. I think I'm getting much better with the prompts, and the whole cool thing about ChatGPT that I just learned as well is that I can ask ChatGPT, chatgpt, what is the best prompt that I can tell you to say this, and it will give me the prompt and then I give it back to you with some additional information and then it gives me bigger details. So the more you use it, the more you see how much work you can get done, and then it also helps your creativity to flow because you may give it, say, okay, I want this, that, that, and what I always ask it afterwards is and and add any other thing that you think might also be helpful, and it always gives me additional suggestion. So you know it's always fun using chat gpt, but at the same time sometimes I feel I get sucked in and I'll sit down trying to go deeper and deeper, rather than just say the information and just go.
Speaker 1:I like it as well. I've used it to ask me like interview questions. Pretend I'm in Forbes magazine and I'm being interviewed for an article for them and it actually will spit out the questions because of all the information I put into it and it will ask me the questions. I'm like this is awesome. I've not used it for like drawing or any of the other crazy stuff, I've just used it for mostly ad copy and stuff like that. But in the forums and being able to like hey, can you make me? This is really easy for those of you who are listening and you don't have a bio yet. You can go into chat GPT and say make a bio for me. That's 150 words or less. It'll pop it out in five seconds. There's no more having to think really hard on what should I say? Should I say I hang out in the trees? Should I mention my children? Do I mention this book I read?
Speaker 2:It's amazing it is. It is amazing and it's scary at the same time. You know, because you know, the more we rely on technology in that way is you know, the less we are inclined to use in our own initiative and our own. You know creativity, so you know, as much as we want to use it, we still want to do our own.
Speaker 1:you know groundwork definitely don't assume that everything that chat should be correct is correct and don't assume that it's it's gospel or or anything. Always reread something, and even the the different levels of ai, like I have ai for the podcast and it populates it. I pay extra for it because this is before chat GPT came out and that group of like show notes or topic. When I put it in chat GPT I was like, oh lovely, it's like, because it was all it read. It was it didn't read the right way. So always proofread everything you get, because it's not, you know, it's not a hundred percent um, foolproof for sure. Um, excuse me, I've been seeing that they've been spraying really hard because of the fires in the next state over oh okay, are you in?
Speaker 1:I'm in arizona and california is the next day over and all of the fires are finally reaching here. And if you think about the distance, because it takes five mountain ranges to hit my mom's house, which is an Irvine, so it has the cloud cover, has to cover all of that desert. But um, we went and running yesterday and I've just been like coughing ever since. I'm like I should have ran inside. I just can't help it. If I get a chance to be in the forest, I just want to be outside. So one of those weirdos, I know that's okay. Let's talk about finding the right talent. So you guys work exclusively with other contractors or are you just subcontracting from other companies? How is that working out for your business model?
Speaker 3:We actually do a mixture, okay, out for your business model. Okay, we actually do a mixture. Okay, we'll have employees, we'll have subcontractors and we'll have contractors. So well, contractors is the same thing as subcontracting. But when I say subcontracting it would mean like okay, I get it from another company and I give it to another company for them to do, versus contracting, where I'm the one that got the contract and I find a contractor to do it. So we choose contractors based on availability. Our employees they don't do full time, so they're also part time, so their schedule is kind of flexible as well. Right, so we use contractor to do the jobs that they can't do as well you have a hybrid model, which is fantastic.
Speaker 1:How many um w-2s do you currently have?
Speaker 3:uh, we have two w-2s and how many contractors?
Speaker 2:which fluctuates. It fluctuates, um, because we have people who go to school they'll call us in the summer, during the holidays, and you know and they'll come on and work. So I would say it is stable. We have about three, and then we have family members that also work with us as contractors.
Speaker 1:Okay so.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, I would say around nine, 10. Okay, and then persons will come on in between the holidays and the summer, I would say between three and four three and four, so anywhere from nine to like 12 or 13.
Speaker 1:So that's amazing. So it looks like. According to your website, you guys do a whole spectrum of cleaning. There's not just you don't just focus on house cleaning, you have commercial. It looked like there were some window opportunities and then some other things. I quickly skimmed through what you did. Why don't you tell us a little bit about what you guys cover job wise and whether that has been beneficial for you or if it's something that you're going to do long term? Like I have done it all. So I prefer, you know, post-construction cleaning, regular maintenance cleanings and then move out cleanings. Those are the three things I focus on.
Speaker 2:Ok, awesome, well, let me touch back a little bit in the past. Awesome, well, let me touch back a little bit in the past. So we used to take on pretty much almost any and every job. So if someone called us in New York, you know we'll drive to New York. You know, to clean their homes, you know, and was really time consuming and exhausting, especially when you just finish one and you are almost home or you're almost done for the day, and another one calls you and then you have to drive another hour more to get that person. So I find that you know, um, not to exhaust yourself and your resources. You know it's to narrow that down. You know, pick a demographic, pick an area and just stick to it.
Speaker 2:You know, you'll get better returns that way. So we do service all of North Jersey, Even though we're looking to expand.
Speaker 1:We service North Jersey currently and for the people who don't know, is north jersey by the beach or not by the beach? It is well, jersey is a tiny little state, so I mean, actually, if you're playing, you can freeze by no, no, new jersey is well it's.
Speaker 3:It's smaller than other states, but it's kind of like long. So you have North Jersey, central Jersey and South Jersey, so we're at the top, and then to the east and west you have Pennsylvania, or Delaware actually, and then you have the Hudson River, which borders New York. So you have from New York and all the way to Delaware.
Speaker 2:Gotcha. Yeah so we're pretty much in the middle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're pretty much in the middle.
Speaker 2:so it takes us about an hour or hour and change to make that full circle, to touch like three different states.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so if we were further down then it would take like three hours and the lower you go is like five, six hours to drive wider at the bottom then yeah, yeah, interesting, we're in a good, we're in a good spot, awesome, so um, we're right in the middle so you're right in the middle, you've learned to scale down your service area and um not take on every job, which is always. I always like to ask the questions like what was the most unusual job that you took on? Um, because it everybody can relate to like the weirdest or the most oddest thing that you've taken on as a job. What was it there?
Speaker 3:is so many, I cannot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there is there, there is a lot um a lot of things in the cleaning industry, things we wish we never saw I'll tell you a quick, easy one that um, at the time because it was just me and her starting out we weren't sure what the scope of work was. So we we got hired to to deep clean a house that they were doing construction on, but the kitchen. They weren't finished with the kitchen, so they asked us to if we could take the wallpapers off the wall. Oh, my god, and we said yes, okay, okay, of course, yeah, no problem, it was going to be easy. It took us like six additional hours and we had to be using like a chisel to chisel the wallpaper off the wall. When we were done, we actually got some kind of damage from our wrist and I think we only charged him like $200 to do the entire kitchen.
Speaker 1:We did not know anything we have to have the chemical which helps to lift it up, and then you have to have the, the heat gun to.
Speaker 2:Well, it's a whole process, but yeah yeah, the contractor that was actually doing the work was thrilled that we were willing to do it and he just left.
Speaker 1:I bet they were. Oh my goodness, I bet they were. That's just so wild, absolutely wild.
Speaker 3:So we learned from that. I think that was a turning point when we said, when we decided actually not okay, before you take on a job, we have to definitely do research if we can do it, if it's in the scope of work or not. So that would be probably one, at the least where it is, but one of the ones that I would say okay, you really need to know exactly what you're doing before you say yes to anything that the client requests, because that can have serious repercussions later on.
Speaker 1:Damage. I mean, I've seen people like do the weirdest things with shower doors. You know how they have the super thick half inch glass shower doors that are really heavy. I've seen people take still wool and just like try to get all the water spots. I'm like what were you thinking when you I go? Do you know how much those doors are? They're like, oh my God. And they're like, well, I don't have insurance. I don't know what to tell you, it's going to suck bill for you. Man.
Speaker 1:A lot of people like you know they want to try out something new and they always want to do it in a client's home. I do not recommend that you do that. If you want to try out something new, do it in your own home where it's something is, even if it's a rental. If you damage it, it still gives you time before you move out to get it replaced. But yeah, I've seen all. I've seen it all. I've absolutely seen it. I've seen you know you guys have heard me talk about the chandelier that fell and it impaled somebody. It's just the most and you know it like missed the long it like like went through. They were the long. Um, I want to say they were like prisms.
Speaker 4:Yes, Homeowner Sorry.
Speaker 1:That is fine. They were prisons and they were. It was hanging in the foyer on the way up to the stairs and the homeowner wanted to get it done and she touched it and it had been hit since the sixties and it fell and then the prisms bounced off the floor. A couple of them hit the wall, so they were like swords, and then one bounced off and hit the cleaning tech right here. So on the left side, like below the heart and above the lung. Thank God Put a blood out right there. Right, yes, you have to be careful and understand what you're getting yourself into. Like you probably have learned that you don't do wallpaper removal. Right, yes, you have to be careful and understand what you're getting yourself into. Like you probably have learned that you don't do wallpaper removal. That's out of my wheelhouse.
Speaker 1:So you just, you never know. Um, of course that's all of the crazy stuff on my phone.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry, ladies, so that's okay just a second please it's time for a potty break oh no, she's just got a little sniffle. It's actually winter here, so it's very cold, it's extremely cold oh, my gosh, it's.
Speaker 1:I feel like I feel like I shouldn't even complain. I mean, it was like 20 this morning when I walked outside and I told my littles I'm like you have to wear a jacket, and they're like oh, and I'm like you have to wear a jacket. Why do I have to wear a jacket? It's 20. Anytime it hits 20, you have to um.
Speaker 1:You know they're eight and nine, my oldest is 30 and my baby is eight, so it's I have a wide spectrum of children. For sure, let me see if I can get her. He always, he always challenges me, my little eight year old.
Speaker 2:I'm like you're just feisty all the time. I know what you mean.
Speaker 1:I have one too, right, and it's just they want to question everything. That should be able to get her in on what you're doing, because, god forbid, you know what you're talking about, right? Anyway, I got her the um, let's see if it'll go now. So she should have it on there, and it looks like she just maybe logged into the wrong thing. So having insurance and I'm cheating off my notes here, that's okay. So when you guys are operating, depending on the job, are you also having someone do quality checks? How are you guys ensuring quality, especially with contractors? Are you relying on the customer to give you the quality? What are you doing to get quality out of?
Speaker 2:your helpers, okay, so um, our system currently sends out um, um, what you call that, those five-star asking for you know reviews and opinions of the customers after each cleaning. We do also follow up with them on a weekly basis and, especially if it's a new client, we personally call them to make sure, and we also check in with the technicians as well. So 360, 360 check.
Speaker 1:Perfect, because everybody has their own little method on how they ensure quality. Like, for example, everything I do, like we don't walk any properties at all. I had someone get upset with me because they wanted us to go and walk it. It was a partial clean. I've been doing it 15 years. You're not going to tell me anything. I don't already know.
Speaker 1:But there there is this. I've spoken to other cleaning business owners and they have quality control people and like, are you training everybody to where they need to be? Because you really shouldn't need quality control except for, like, with one-time cleanings and this is my opinion If you're going to blunder it on the schedule, it's going to be a one-time cleaning versus regular maintenance Cause nine times out of 10, unless they're brand new. They already know the house, they already know expectations, they know that Mrs Smith likes the vase here instead of over here. There's that dynamic where one-time cleanings after you work so many hours, you're exhausted and you just went off the job and you're not seeing the same sparkle that you saw when you first walked in. Is that how you guys are doing it?
Speaker 2:Okay. So we, differently from taking before and after pictures, which they have to do, even if it's a maintenance cleaning, if you're going to that house for the first time, they're required to take before and after pictures. Right, we do. In asking the customers questions and getting feedback from the technicians, we do put special notes on our accounts, so it doesn't matter which technician goes there, they'll know that. Okay for this customer. Feedback from the technicians we do put special notes on our accounts, so it doesn't matter which technician goes there, they'll know that. Okay for this customer. They like when you sweep underneath the rug or when you go under the bed or when you, you know, check the fridge for spoiled food.
Speaker 2:So you know we put in those other things. And we also ask the customers you know what are your pet peeves when we're booking them? You know. So you know and pay attention to those little things. You know that will give us that extra edge over another company or another client. You know our technician that they were dealing with. So, um, we try to communicate as much as possible and put in those little special notes. Um, am I missing anything?
Speaker 3:um, I would say um, for after when the job is complete as well. You know, we do call the customers um asking for feedback as well, um, for maintenance clients that are regular um, we do that maybe once a month, once every, you know, just to make sure we're staying on top of things, and for a one-time clean, it's always after the service is done.
Speaker 1:Right, I think that's the best practice. For sure, miss Jamie, you made it.
Speaker 4:Hi Jamie. Hi, hi you guys. Sorry I'm late, I technology'm late. I just got confused over. There's a lot of times that I got to pick. I'm here, I'm picking up what you guys are a little bit, and I'm sorry to jump in here, but I love talking about this stuff. So, um, how do you guys have? Is it just you two or is? Do you guys have?
Speaker 1:so, jamie, just to catch you up on everything he has. He has some w-2s and she has 1099s, and then she has our w-2 and 1099s and then she has others that are not family. So they have a wide variety of workforce.
Speaker 4:Oh great, you get to pick from the. I love that. And where are you guys located at?
Speaker 2:New Jersey, not yes.
Speaker 4:Not Nice, wonderful, and you guys have. I was hearing that you guys have somebody that comes in and goes and checks like a team lead, a couple of them probably.
Speaker 2:Oh, no, no, no. So pretty much I would say they get two weeks worth of training. If they're contractors, w2s will get 30 days of training because we give them pretty much a wider range of cleanings that we do. So we do hoarding cleaning, we do deep cleaning cleaning, post-construction maintenance.
Speaker 4:So that's, we've got a lot. Yeah, I know Perfect cleaning. Yeah, well, I got my hand in the jar just like that as well. But here in California, on certain cleans, I have to be be, I have to go down to Sacramento and do this training because you know California. That's all we need to say. California needs everything. I need to be certified. Um, that's awesome. That's awesome. And you guys do a lot of um videos and stuff like um, we recently started doing videos.
Speaker 2:Um, before we, I would say, because we were, we were wearing so many hats, we were wearing so many hats. We recently started delegating some tasks oh, my goodness, hiring a.
Speaker 3:VA.
Speaker 2:Hiring a VA.
Speaker 3:Really. So what used to happen is like when we went into the house we were so booked ourselves there was literally no time for anything else. So, um, once we started delegating other things, like admin work, you know, calling back the customers we can free up a little bit more time where we're okay. Now we can take the time to actually like take the pictures, and I know, I know it should have been something that was important from the start, but sometimes at the time you know we were just going just going through the motions right yeah, so right in front of the other exactly.
Speaker 3:So right now, we're pretty much uh, we're pretty much starting to implement that. We're okay, every job that we go on, we're going to take before and after pictures and we also want to get um testimonials from the clients right there and then video, as you know, video proof. So we just started implementing that, janet, actually last month, december.
Speaker 1:Awesome. I love that. When I first got into this industry, taking a photo inside of someone's home was such a taboo and forbidden it was not allowed was such a taboo and forbidden it was not allowed now because of the way our society has changed and people will say things, especially with quality, and then they say things to get a discount is basically what it's come down to shamefully, and even though you've done a good job, unless you have proof to back it up, you have to cover yourself. So, yes, definitely taking before and afters. I know that there's been a big talk lately of having everybody be on camera. I'm still flat out against it. There's a lot of reasons why that I will not go into here, that you have to kind of look at the bigger picture of what that is doing to our society and our industry in general.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, I think definitely having a short little video. We've done it for a long time because a lot of people have second homes here and they're not here, so we'll shoot a video and we'll talk them through the video. This is what we did here. This is what we did here and this is what your house looks like now and this is what we did here and, by the way, we couldn't get this off because we scrubbed it 15 times, it's not going to come clean and then get this off because we scrubbed it 15 times, it's not going to come clean. And then that way it kind of balances out the the potential danger of by the way, I'm disputing my credit card because I feel that I don't have to pay. You know the 650 bucks. You guys missed the hair in the tub and you're like, like a video walkthrough, basically yeah it is so they can sign off on it still.
Speaker 2:Right, I think we can all attest to that. We've, we've had clients do that. You know um, luckily, you know, we, we, we haven't had that anymore. Um, as you said before, you know, um, you do the walkthrough. You, you point these things out to the customer. You know, and even in booking we let the customers know that. You know that we will be taking before and after pictures.
Speaker 4:You know you can have them for your reference, you know we let them know upfront, so they know what to expect in their client portal, right?
Speaker 1:definitely. And then payment and budgeting. It's speaking of disputes. Have you guys saw an increase in payment schedules like being disputed and contractors becoming too expensive? What is your take on on that? Me, I believe, paying top dollar to all my contractors, so that means I can only take on certain jobs because my margin still has to remain the same. Are you guys doing that or are you? How are you working that? Are you just taking lesser and lesser? Are you keeping your profit margins the same? What are you doing to combat that, that situation that happens?
Speaker 2:Okay, so first I would say that in the past we were paying way too much, like 85%, 85%, oh my gosh. We were paying out 85% to our contractors and you know pretty much there was no margin. You know that was really to just, you know, assist with you know softwares, any little overheads, and we were out there ourselves, you know so, and we were actually paying ourselves way less, you know. So it wasn't working out. Over time we've actually changed that to where you know it got to like 20%, then 30%, changed that to where you know it got to like 20 percent, then 30 percent, and then we realized that every every contractor is different, you know.
Speaker 2:So we have a range that we pay and we also have our margins that we want to stick within. We are able to take a range of jobs where we can say, okay, we can send this contractor to this one so that you know they're happy, we can still keep our margins. And then this contractor to this one and we are still able to keep our margins. So we have that range there. So that way everyone is happy and also because we're goal oriented you know we we're. It's not just about what the company wants and where we want to go, but what? What is it that you're looking to do and where you're looking to go to? And we try to help them to create a roadmap for themselves to achieving what they want.
Speaker 1:I love that that's great. People always want a path, and if you can have someone point the path out for you without overthinking cause we all get in our way, I it, I'm guilty your brain just goes and then you're like, yeah, yeah, and then you start to think more and it's this whole dynamic where, if someone spells it out, you do a, b, c, d, e, f, g and you're like right, it makes it much nicer, definitely, um. And then I've seen an uptick of disputes for credit cards. It's been interesting the last year.
Speaker 3:um, no we actually don't have.
Speaker 2:We haven't had any disputes in the last two, three years before we had a lot of it, um, but we realize you know you have to keep on reinforcing what is expected to the customer. You know, and if possible, you have to let the not if possible, you have to let the technician know. Everyone has to be on the same page. Your VA has to be on the same page. You have to be on the same page. Your technicians need to be on the same page. Your customers need to be on the same page, need to be on the same page.
Speaker 2:If we don't all know what the, what the job is, or what the language is, if we're not speaking the same language, we're gonna have an issue. So you know, let me give you a quick scenario. You know customer calls in. They want a maintenance, cleaning. They just need two rooms done and one bathroom. They don't want the entire house. You know that's what we're gonna put them for. That's what we're gonna put on a job.
Speaker 2:We're gonna put on their pet peeves and everything the technician is gonna get that they're gonna see what the customer is supposed to get and they know that if anything changes, they need to confirm with the customer. Anything changes, they need to call us. They need to let the customer know that this is not what is on the job description. I can do it for you, but you need to let the office know, or this is what's going to be the upcharge, because you know you have customers that will book something and and then, when the technician gets there, they'll say listen, that's not what I said. I told her that I wanted a deep cleaning. I told her that it was awful, or it's just a quick dust, it's a quick dust, it's always a quick dust.
Speaker 4:It's a broom sweep right.
Speaker 1:We're just going to have to sweep and dust. It's no big deal, it's not that big.
Speaker 4:It's not that big.
Speaker 2:It's not an automatic. Okay, we're, we're there you have.
Speaker 2:You have to make sure that there's full transparency with the customer and the technicians. You know, they know that if anything changes, that they're supposed to be compensated more. The customer knows that when the technician gets there, oh my god, they know exactly what I said and it's there and you know, they know that they can't change it. You know so it it's, it's just communicating. And make sure that you have full transparency and that will help to eliminate any confusion, any discrepancies, anyone you know trying to get a little extra out of you.
Speaker 4:You know, and it's very hard to, it's very easy to do. It's easy especially if the technician is in there and they're looking. Sometimes they get I don't know. Sometimes some of my technicians get side like they start doing you know. Oh, there's a smudge on the windows and I'm like, wait, no, that's not not on the thing. Your job description. How long have you guys been in?
Speaker 2:business for Well, we've been doing this for 10 years, but we registered 2019. So that's what? Seven years now? Yeah, Officially Seven years officially.
Speaker 4:Thank you, congratulations, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:You're so knowledgeable. I love that.
Speaker 4:I love again. I just love talking about this stuff Because you always can learn something new.
Speaker 2:Always about this stuff, because I'm you always can learn something new, always. And you know, in the beginning you believe that you're the only one that's going through it, until you start communicating and talking to other cleaners and you're like, okay, I'm not the only one, it's you know, we're all going through it. You know how can we learn from each other, inspire each other and help each other to grow. So you know you can't be afraid to to ask questions. You know and to be open to learning something.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah yeah, I think that resonates a lot with the whole audience. That's why. That's why they listen to this show is because, um, it's so much knowledge we come across so much knowledge in here, because we Shannon, you guys, everybody has been in the trenches, you know, and real knowledge.
Speaker 1:That's what I like about martial arts. It's real life experiences. It's not something that I read from a book. Oh, paragraph three says to do this.
Speaker 4:Somebody that's never picked up a mop, you know I, just they're. They're out there doing what we're doing or what we have done. You know I. I have a question Did you guys, whenever you started growing, did you ever feel guilty about backing out and just running? Because I kind of I do. I go back and forth with it, you know.
Speaker 3:I still, I'll admit I still do. And to give you an example, just recently, yesterday. So we actually went out on a large drop yesterday, so it was like a 5,000 square foot home, deep cleaning. It was me and Atasha and two other contractors and we were there cleaning and I'm just there. Okay, I got to get this done, I want the customer to be happy, and all of that that.
Speaker 3:And then there was a point in time when I felt like I wasn't doing as much as the contractors, because they did the entire top floor and they did the entire basement, and then they still had to come and help us on the main floor, which was the kitchen, and I was like, oh, that's not fair.
Speaker 3:You, oh, my God, you know. But then when you look at it, the square footage of the home the top floor and the basement pretty much is the same square footage as the main floor. So we are pretty much doing about the same. So I did feel a little guilty that, okay, you know, maybe they might think that oh, you, you know they're doing more of the work than me and because I'm the boss, I'm trying to get one over them myself. So I had that thought in the back of my head. I'm still trying to learn how to take myself out of it and and be the leader in charge to say, okay, this needs to be done. I'm here on the job helping, and it's a team effort and not just you know. Everybody has to do equal.
Speaker 2:Equal because the basement may take less time than, like, a master bathroom, which is going to be a whole lot of work, you know so yeah, I had to kind of bring her back a little bit on that because even in between that we still had to check because of the type of client that it was. We had to stop and check, to go upstairs to make sure I check their work to see, you know, just to make sure that nothing was missed, you know and go downstairs. So you know a lot of time was lost there and we're I think it's because we're so used to finishing our you know, our section before everyone else. Um, but you do have some of those clients that you know you have to just get it so perfect, you have to know it.
Speaker 4:I'll tell you that, um, I got a little guilty whenever I purchased my first house. I don't. I just I felt a little guilty, like, should I be doing this? Am I allowed to do this? Sometimes I ask those questions like I just I don't know. But then I look and I'm like you know, and sometimes they'll send me little videos A couple of them have, and they'll show me their child's birthday party and they'll put you did all this, you created all this, you, you, you pay us the money to make us be able to do this. And I just, but I still have my guilty moments of and I'm trying to get it in my head, like you know, it's okay for this to happen.
Speaker 4:You deserve it. Right, it's okay. I get you guys the job, the work I pay. I do all the backend stuff. It's okay for me to purchase a house.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. You know those are the things that you should put on your wall. You know, maybe create a little vision board where you can remind yourself of the good that you're doing for others. And you know, know you're changing, you're making that great impact on other people's lives. You know, as we were mentioning to Shannon earlier, you know we're very goal oriented.
Speaker 2:You know and you wanna find out. You know what it is that those persons are working for. You know what, what, what are their wise, why is it that they want this job? Or why, what are the things that they want to achieve in life? You know, and you help them to say, well, okay, you know, align it with your, with your, with your business. And you say, you know, okay, if you since you're trying to achieve this, you want to get a new car by X time and you want it to work part-time, you want it to do three days, okay, if you can do an extra hour, then you can do two jobs instead and then that will help you to save, you know this amount or this percentage and get to your dream car by x time. You know, so, once you kind of get to lay out those kind of things. For them it's easier.
Speaker 2:You know, we had a contractor that joined us about three years ago and she had pretty much just left high school. She just had a baby. She wanted to do cleaning because she said, you know, that was, you know, one of the jobs that paid the most and she didn't want to just go into a regular job and tie down all of her time and at the same time she wanted to go back to school, you know, but she wanted to put it off. You know, I had to encourage her that. You know, I know it's going to be hard, but you need to sign up for school right now. I loved her the first week she started working with her.
Speaker 2:I'm like I don't have to teach this girl anything. You know, yes, and she was. She was with us for like a year and a half and now, um I forgot what you call it um, where you do the ultrasounds for the babies, yeah, yeah, so you know, she, she, she went through school and you know, she eventually took a internship with them and now she's working with them, but every now and then she'll call. You know, we'll check in with each other, but when she started the internship she even, you know, cut her hours less, but it was a beautiful relationship, you know, and we're still like family now, you know. So, you, you can't feel guilty or selfish if you know that you're doing your best to put that person forward, because no one is going to be with you forever. Everyone has to grow, you know, once you have that mindset, you shouldn't be feeling guilty. You are doing your best and you're making a great impact on other people's lives.
Speaker 1:I think that time has changed a lot, like when I grew up, you were, you were expected to get a job and stay there for like 20 years. That was your and that was your due. And then you know it was reciprocity. So if you stayed with them 20 years they would give you retirement. Those days are long gone. I don't even know, I don't know if anybody who does that I mean hard rock cafe um in vegas, which opened up on my birthday. If you made it 10 years with them, they used to give you a rolex watch. I don't think they do that anymore. Um, it was a blue dial with diamonds.
Speaker 1:I yeah that that was like being with them for and they actually shut down that hotel and just rebuilt another hotel, still in Vegas. So I love the dynamics. It really is about collaboration and helping push others up. I say it all the time the whole point of doing all of this craziness is so that you can sell it or you can gift it to family to create a legacy for others. It's not just about you, you, you. It's about the relationships you build and the connections you have made, and we're starting to see that finally. Yes, so it's been really nice. Do you guys have any? We're getting right here in an hour and I know you guys got a lot to do today. Do you have any questions?
Speaker 3:for Jamie or myself. You know, I just want to. You know, thank you so much for choosing us to be on the podcast. You know it's our first podcast so we're a little bit nervous, but you guys have been wonderful, you know. Thank you so much for the opportunity. One quick question, but you guys have been wonderful, you know. Thank you so much for the opportunity.
Speaker 2:Okay, I have one quick question how do you go about doing your automations? I know you mentioned Jobber and that made it easier for you, but how do you automate more admin tasks? And you know your scheduling, you know, or even customer self-service?
Speaker 1:There should not be 100% customer self-service. We're a human-based industry. That is flat out. That's my opinion.
Speaker 1:You may disagree with me, you may not so there should always be a way for them to channel you and get one of you if there's an issue. The most frustrating thing I hear it all the time is that they try, they tried and even when we were talking to chris schwab is they're trying to automate everything in our industry, but you can't automate customer service because we're a human-based industry. Um, you can't automate other tasks like you. You, for example, you can. I still haven't done it and I'm dragging my feet. It's my website was down as I was telling you you can't. You can buy stuff off of your website, but you still have to call them because you know that the customer is going to buy the cheapest package they need to have. You know, not a hoarding clean, but it hasn't been cleaned in six years. So there's points of contact that still have to happen.
Speaker 1:As far as chatbots, ai is taking over that it's really easy peasy. They're pretty low cost. Right now I'm seeing CleanPixels doing some things. I haven't had a chance to catch up to him, but I'll be interviewing him, probably in the next round of interviews. So there's a lot of automation that's happening. It's just being able to afford that automation. You know, having a digital calendar system. A scheduler is. It can be, jamie, I think you pay $300 a month. I pay. I don't have the deluxe, I don't have the deluxe version. I just pay a hundred, and you know.
Speaker 4:However, it does do a lot of that automation. And now they have this great thing that's called Copilot, and this is only on Jobber. I've tried everything else and I always kept coming back to Jobber because of the incentive that it keeps me here with the refer three months. So you know.
Speaker 1:So those things more automated, making your tasks more automated. I know everyone's saying I made 175 ads in minutes off AI. I don't know if that yes, you can script those things to happen, but I don't know if it's going to actually get you the ROI that you're looking for, because remember when we were talking about ChatGPT, you still have to go in and tweak it the way it is. So it's your voice. It's not just a generalized a lot of stuff.
Speaker 4:It's only as smart as as you make it Right and yeah, it's, it's. I'm pretty much other than a couple of things here and there to tweak it. I'm fully automated, like reminders and and the you know them, seeing the schedule and what, what they need to do at what house. We leave each other notes, we send each other, we throw their pictures, pictures in there they make a job, or even whenever they clock in, it'll show me within a range that they're there. They're not over at the gas station and I'm just paying them for to talk on the phone you know, you know, like Shannon says, it's not going to ever be 100%.
Speaker 4:There has to be some sort of connection, and I think that's part of the gig here.
Speaker 2:To just give them that human touch.
Speaker 4:Yes, that interaction, to know that, oh, this person actually cares. They got to hear the sincerity in your voice and and and. A lot of times, even though I'm more expensive than most people in my area, they. It's because of that, that, that interaction, that you know you get the job, you know.
Speaker 1:Being personable.
Speaker 1:Being personable? And how many times have you called because you have a customer service issue and it prompts you on the hi, I'm the AI bot and you're like okay, what vocabulary words do I need to say to get the customer service person? So you're like, okay, is it this word? So then you have to wait for it to round again. Is it this word? Is it that word? It doesn't come to the glossary and say, okay, with my AI chatbot, you need to use this word to get customer service. And then another person has a different AI chatbot and you have to use this other word. You're like, oh, my gosh, very frustrating, it's frustrating, it's, but you just want to get on and off.
Speaker 2:You don't want to, and.
Speaker 1:I get it. They're saving on labor. I totally understand. But look at fast food, fast food and it's scary. We know at least in my area, I know for a fact Starbucks never mops their floor, ever. We have five locations in my area. They never mop them. There is no shift turn of cleaning up before they go. They just drop whatever they're doing and just leave. I'm like who's cleaning the kitchen? I'll never eat at Starbucks Watching fast food too.
Speaker 1:As the minimum wage is increasing, they're not able to cover their costs because the food costs and labor are the two highest things after your brick and mortar. You're going to see more automation happening. I mean we just saw Chipotle came out with an avocado robot. Chick-fil-a just came up with their own facility to squeeze lemons on site, which gave them an additional income funnel for the essential oils that came from the lemon squeezing, and then they have less workman's comp because the employees are no longer doing that task. So we're starting to see things happen and it's kind of like a baby step. There's not going to be a quick fix to automate everything in our industry, because we still will need to have that human contact and that connection and, you know, or it just won't work.
Speaker 2:I agree with you, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for coming on and I was exciting to talk to you and I learned a bunch and I will definitely clip out that one piece talking about and if you guys have any further questions, please reach out we will, we will.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, bye.
