CBL Episode #118 Beyond the Reach: When Specialty Cleaning Becomes a Liability-We are specifically talking about Popcorn Ceilings...

Tackling popcorn ceilings might seem like a straightforward cleaning task, but as experienced professionals reveal in this candid discussion, it's anything but simple. These textured ceilings, popular in the 1970s as apartment sound barriers, present unique challenges that can quickly turn a standard cleaning job into an expensive nightmare.

The conversation dives deep into why popcorn ceiling cleaning requires specialized techniques and careful consideration. Most importantly: keep it dry! Attempting to clean these ceilings with liquid or a damp mop will likely result in ceiling damage, as the plaster material easily absorbs moisture and begins to crumble. This creates a cascade of falling debris that can damage floors, furniture, and your business reputation. The proper approach involves gentle vacuuming with specialized attachments and extraordinary patience, making this a job that's not scalable for teams but rather an owner-operator specialty service.

Pricing strategies and liability protection take center stage as the hosts emphasize the importance of charging appropriately for this labor-intensive work. Starting at a minimum of $250 and potentially reaching $1,000 or more depending on square footage, this isn't a service to undervalue. Smart business owners will have clients sign liability waivers, create detailed equipment checklists, and carefully track time spent on these specialty jobs. Understanding your insurance coverage and deductibles becomes critical, as damage resulting from improper popcorn ceiling cleaning could easily exceed standard deductible amounts of $1,500-5,000. The message is clear: if you lack experience with popcorn ceilings, either decline these jobs or practice extensively in your own home before offering this as a commercial service. Your business reputation and financial stability may depend on making the right choice.

It can be crowed when trying to figure out who you are going to learn from

Up your cleaning game, join over 6000 Cleaning Business Owners most of whom are located here in the United States.  

Chapters

• 1:45 Introduction and Dream Studio Chat
• 4:03 Should I Clean Popcorn Ceilings?
• 7:47 Techniques and Warnings for Ceiling Cleaning
• 12:48 Insurance Considerations and Liability
• 18:32 Proper Pricing for Specialty Cleaning
• 22:39 Pro Tips and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:53

Welcome back, miss Jamie, how are you?

Speaker 2: 0:55

I am wonderful. How are you Good? I just I didn't push my mic on for the last episode, so I'm going to make sure that the mic is on, that you guys can hear me. I'm super excited to have you here she's doing a check, check, check, check, check, which is just a code for I'm messing around Check, check, check, check, check.

Speaker 1: 1:14

Eventually, I want to get a green screen, so the, the people that are, um, the viewers out that that actually watch the, the videos, because notice that you've been putting them on on YouTube lately. Um, uh, I don't know. I would like to mess around with it a little bit. You guys will be our, our, one day in barbie dream house.

Speaker 2: 1:38

I would like to have a studio where, you know, I I don't. I can't imagine us ever getting as big as joe rogan, but, um, because of the distance between jamie and I myself, there's no way that, you know, we could just fly back and forth. It's too hard to coordinate between dogs and kids and everything else, so, but in barbie dream house that would be an ideal situation. We have a Joe Rogan studio. Love it. I don't think I could ever sit down with someone for three whole hours, though, and talk to them about whatever, because that's the criteria you have to commit to.

Speaker 2: 2:12

You can't say whatever content you want to discuss, so there's no like you can't talk about a certain topic. It's whatever Joe Rogan feels and it's an hour segment. These are long, long interviews. And that takes stamina when you look at certain YouTube people and they give a five-hour presentation. You just can't arbitrarily give a five-hour presentation. It takes focus and stamina's. It's like for me to talk for two hours at one time is probably my max and it took a while to get there.

Speaker 1: 2:43

So sometimes it depends, though, too, because you just get to talking. Well, I know that with others are like industry, I just. I can go on and on about it, but I'm not. I can't stay focused on just one thing. I like to talk about all the things.

Speaker 2: 3:03

Right, so Having an actual conversation. But today we are going to talk about should I clean popcorn ceilings? Every spring, this reiterates itself. It becomes a thing because someone has this notion that their popcorn ceilings is not up to their household standards any longer and they want us lowly cleaners or cleaner providers to come in and fix it. So there's a lot of do's and don'ts when it comes to popcorn ceiling. It's not a job for a newbie. So if you're brand new in the industry and your client goes oh my God, this person is super cheap, I'm going to get them to do everything. Don't take on this job unless you have some experience behind you yourself. Maybe you can experiment on your own popcorn ceiling. Do use caution. I'm laughing because I've seen all kinds of things.

Speaker 1: 3:57

Yeah, yeah, um, it's popcorn ceiling.

Speaker 2: 4:01

I, a lot of people need to get rid of it, right, and it was really popular in the seventies and it was a sound barrier usually put in apartments to help the acoustics, so it wasn't so loud, so you didn't hear your upstairs neighbor versus your downstairs neighbor. That was the whole premise behind having popcorn ceilings and I know that I've talked about this before in a podcast. I didn't recollect specifically talking about this one topic, so I thought we would elaborate a little more, because I know I'm going to get messages like why are you talking about popcorn ceiling? You already talked about it and it's it's because it needs to be addressed again and um, it's going to be more things that I'm sure that you know.

Speaker 1: 4:42

It's just like, hey, we're gonna I uh, we're gonna remind you guys a little bit more of this, or we'll elaborate a little bit more.

Speaker 2: 4:50

So there's you know it's, it's not even going to be elaborate. We're going to reiterate that's what I reiterate what the boundaries are going to be.

Speaker 2: 4:59

So if you have a popcorn ceiling that is smaller in nature, you obviously I'm hoping in today's society you will not come across a 4,000 square foot house with popcorn ceiling. Usually those houses have 12 foot ceilings. We're talking apartment ceilings, so each story is what is it? Eight feet, 10 feet, I don't even remember anymore. So you'll be able to reach it with a low ladder, but you have to decide whether you're going to take on the scope of that job, and it definitely is an upcharge. Please don't come to Jamie or myself later and go. How much should I charge? I did this whole thing to the popcorn ceiling. It's a whole can of worms. So it should automatically be an upcharge and the minimum charge for starting something like that should be around 250 bucks, because there's.

Speaker 2: 5:50

There's some of the things that would be a good suggestion. I can think of like five or six things. Um, to do popcorn ceiling, what would be your number one thing Don't take it on.

Speaker 1: 6:02

No, right, no, uh, seriously, uh, you, you need to tell your client whoever has the popcorn ceiling. This is an add-on charge. I need to. I do linear footage whenever it's stuff like that. Linear footage is whenever you're walking toe to toe, toe to heel across the room in an account. So it's $2.50 plus whatever. Say $2 linear footage. Right, and make sure you make that clear that that's if you want this clean and they move forward with it. Make sure that they're signing a waiver to release you from any liability and damage that will be caused. Because it is there. Like Shannon said, there's steps involved, right, sometimes it's a broom and it's very backbreaking.

Speaker 2: 7:12

Yes, and you realize how heavy your head is.

Speaker 1: 7:15

Yes, realize how heavy your head is the burn, the burn in between your shoulders and your shoulder blades. It's a lot and trying to get who are not watching.

Speaker 2: 7:31

Uh, jamie is moving her hands back and forth above her head for emphasis you're shaking it like just and having flashbacks right now there's no uh, resting.

Speaker 1: 7:44

It's like, okay, let me just get to the end of this other side and it's, it's a lot, and it usually can take two people, two people at a time, um, one, just to make sure that, because you're looking at popcorn selling all the whole this takes hours. It's not a just quick one. Sometimes I'll use a vacuum, um, but a broom and or I've seen somewhere somebody saying a flat mop. I don't think that is going to work on a popcorn ceiling. You will, in fact, ruin that ceiling. And where, make sure you're wearing eye goggles. I wear glasses anyways, but you got to have goggles. I will, we wear. I wear glasses anyways, but you got to have goggles on because all that stuff is coming down into your eyes and it's just, it's a really uh hard job, but um it is there.

Speaker 2: 8:46

There's prep involved. So if you decide after we tell you, no, don't take it. It's, it's more, um, of a tradesman type of job and and I only know as much as I know because my husband, before he was a plumber, was a handyman. So there's 23 trades and he would, sometimes they would request. You know, I want this popcorn ceiling removed and it was a two-step process. You have to get it wet, let it soak, and then you have to scrape it off.

Speaker 2: 9:13

There is no machine that I'm aware of right now that can remove the popcorn ceiling. It's messy. So you have, you're, you're breathing in whatever's mixing with that plaster because it's sprayed on, usually by a gun, and years, yeah. And then if you add in nicotine or dust or anything else, you're, you're inhaling it and then you have to wear goggles. It's, it's a, it's a messy job. So then you have to. The homeowner has to move all of the furniture out of the room and then you have to put tarp down. You have to tape on, yeah, yeah, because they don't. Oh gosh, it's a, it's a process to physically remove it, but to clean it you every once in a while. You'll get like a little mary who's 92, who wants her popcorn ceiling because she sees a spider web while she's sitting on her Barka lounger and she wants you to clean it. And there is. Do not. It's like cleaning fireplaces. Do not put liquid on popcorn ceiling or you're going to have a chain reaction of events that are going to cause you to have an insurance claim, or you're going to beg a handyman to come in and fix whatever you've screwed up. So vacuuming is the best course of action.

Speaker 2: 10:19

I like the Hoover Portabax. They're about eight to 10 pounds. They come with a pole and then they have a long fingered brush that you can use. There's even a wider one that you can buy that has long fingers Hard to find nowadays but you can. You can run it back and forth above your head and you can't be forceful either. It takes a gentle touch to get all of the dust.

Speaker 2: 10:41

So it's a controlled, you know, up and down, up and down, and you're going section by section, and so it's methodical and it's tedious. So if you are not a methodical or tedious person, this job also might not be for you. Not a methodical or tedious person, this job also might not be for you. But I have seen people attempt to. I've watched them do it. I'm like what were you thinking? So they spray a spray bottle up there and then they take the broom or the vacuum and they start to vacuum it Right, and then chunks start to come down. And they haven't moved the furniture, they haven't put tarp down, and then now you're tracking stuff into the carpet and then it's making the homeowner mad, or or?

Speaker 1: 11:51

their floor, their, their wood floors. That is getting down into the little bitty because it's not been been, uh, sanded and resurfaced. So now it's down into the little bitty cracks that have been into the wood floors and it's just a mess. And then you'll look up and then you'll see, oh, there's a bald spot right.

Speaker 2: 12:15

Ask me how I know right, we're both speaking for experience, but how this all came about and why we wanted to revisit is we actually got this as a post in one of the groups and I will read it to you. It says I have a deep cleaning coming up in April. They have popcorn ceilings that are loaded with dust. What do you guys suggest for cleaning this texture? I've attempted it before, but the ceiling just comes off and makes a bigger mess but the ceiling just comes off and makes a bigger mess.

Speaker 1: 12:46

Bingo. That's why we can read some of these comments. Okay, we're going to read some of the comments and I see there's a lot of likes on here, but I'm going to read it anyways. And I'm not going to call out the person, but I'm just the comment is, the trick with popcorn ceiling is a damp, flat mop.

Speaker 2: 13:11

I, um this person's, cleaned a lot of popcorn ceilings.

Speaker 1: 13:15

There's a lot of lights on there, and that's I. I just uh.

Speaker 2: 13:19

I don't watching the TikTok videos with all the different chemicals down the toilet.

Speaker 1: 13:23

I don't think yes, or all over your bathroom wall. Just know that's not professional, that's not. You're going to take the popcorn ceiling off and that's whenever I was asked earlier. Be careful about it. Make sure you read your insurance and we have to tell everybody this cleaning business owners read your insurances. I have extra coverage to be able to go on higher off of higher ground, use a huge long extension poles, windows that are way up high. I have those extra insurance policies. However, there are times whenever you want to use your insurance and times whenever you don't use your insurance for something I would. For us, if it's under $5,000, I'm more than likely not going to use the insurance claim because it can just kind of and this may not be for any everybody, you know. You know some people might say a thousand but popcorn ceiling and you accidentally ruin it by, uh, using stuff like a wet flat mop, you're gonna start looking into an insurance claim because all that stuff is going to come down.

Speaker 2: 14:52

It's just plaster. It's, and sometimes they paint over it and sometimes they don't, but it's literally plaster in a liquid form that's sprayed so it sticks to the ceiling and then it dries. So they turn on the fans and it has to dry and no one can touch it or any of that other stuff. That's what it is. It's not typically painted, so you're messing with something that can easily come off. So that's why you have to decide whether you're going to take on and do that specialty cleaning or not. And the insurance piece is right. That's why when you're doing ladder work you shouldn't go over a four foot ladder. You'll get a lower insurance rate. But you also have to understand what your deductible is going to be. Jamie mentioned that hers is 5,000. Mine, I believe, is and I only have insurance for the homeowners that come up to, not homeowners cleaning business owners that come up to train with me and I believe mine is a $1,500 deductible.

Speaker 1: 15:50

Yeah, that is. My deductible is $1,500. I'm just saying that I would not put in for a claim. No, Um I wouldn't if it's under $5,000, I will try my hardest to pay out of pocket for that before I would do an insurance claim and over time it's just raise and raise and raise that. Yeah, but my, I believe my deductible is 1500 too.

Speaker 2: 16:18

Yeah, so having insurance and knowing what you're doing and, obviously, deciding whether you're going to take on the job. It looks like this individual has attempted to do popcorn sealing cleaning before in the past and has caused some damage. So because your client asked, does it mean that you should take it on again? If you've done it once and you cause damage, I probably would not be very likely for me or them to do damage again. You're taking a huge liability for your insurance and for yourself and your reputation that you're building.

Speaker 2: 16:55

I did not print out any of the comments on this post, but I was like we really need to address the popcorn ceiling so you can take on the job. But it's you know, test out popcorn ceiling cleaning air. You know air quotes in your own home or someone who has a home that wouldn't mind you doing a little test. And I'm not talking bringing in a hose and doing a full squirt down. I'm talking a small section where you could maybe gauge how much pressure the high duster would need if you were to run it across or vacuum attachment to get a good feel of it. As far as nicotine popcorn sealing, they're going to have to come in with some kills and repaint it and it's going to have to be sprayed on. You're not going to be able to roll that because all those little pieces are going to fall into the carpet or into the floor and it's going to create a whole mess right, it's almost.

Speaker 1: 17:47

That's almost the reason why they don't even paint. It is because painting it, what does it do? It gets it wet, so it's it starts's where the fans are going. Right, I did see somebody suggest using a large paintbrush, but again, there it is. There's that tedious that takes a special touch.

Speaker 2: 18:10

You're not going to be able to give that to a cleaning tech and go here you go.

Speaker 1: 18:13

I want you to do this.

Speaker 2: 18:14

It's not scalable. That's an owner-operator job, for sure. Yes.

Speaker 1: 18:19

Yeah, no, you absolutely don't. If you have, uh, employees or anybody, I just don't. That's. This is up to you to take on this kind of job. And if you do, please by all means charge properly for it. And um you, you know, like I said, those, like Shannon said, those start at 250. And then, even then, I still go might be a little low.

Speaker 1: 18:47

Yeah, yeah, you know sometimes they're 1000 bucks, it just you know, if you really don't want the job, charge $1,500 for it, Just spin it like hey it is, it's a specialty clean. It's kind of like one of those huge chandeliers. I have one, but mine's plastic. It's not real crystal but you get bug poo at the end of those and it's like to individually clean those.

Speaker 2: 19:21

It's just so. It's ladder work, it's labor intensive, exactly.

Speaker 1: 19:26

So, and this is my own home, so I, you know, I I get to one practice too. I know that it exactly what it's going to take to do something like that, know that it exactly what it's going to take to do something like that, and it's kind of similar uh chandeliers and and uh popcorn ceiling, because it's it's specialty clean, right right, yeah, so don't let someone um try to take advantage of you if you're newer and like, hey, can you add this in and how much is that going to be?

Speaker 2: 19:57

um, I know we talked a little bit about the sea, um, the seFID cleanings, because I've had them come up and we were going to do a whole episode on that, probably next week. But those are specialty cleanings as well and you need to be really careful because C-FID, not C-FID, c-did, articulation, c-bid I know Seashore is on the seashore articulation it's it's a dangerous bacteria that could cause a lot of harm to you personally or your family. You can cross contaminate your, your clients with it. But just don't take on jobs If you don't have the experience. Test it out in your house first or find a tester house. Usually how you can get how I got a lot of my experience was someone moved, someone bought a new home. So if you cause any damage because the house is already 30 years old, it's not going to. They're not. It's A, it's not going to be noticeable and B they're going to probably replace it. So if you get the free reign of, I'm going to probably replace it. So if you get the free reign of, I'm going to be replacing these ceiling fans or I'm going to be replacing these window tracks, or I'm going to be doing this, then you can kind of experiment without worrying if you're going to cause damage. When you go to a new client and you're brand new and they go oh, my ceilings, they're popcorn. I want you to change that. I want you to fix that for me. Don't spray a lot of liquid on popcorn ceiling. Don't use a flat mop.

Speaker 2: 21:21

It's a dry job, it's entirely a dry job, and you want to make sure that all of the pieces get picked up. There's prep involved. There's setting up. It's like setting up for a photograph, right, there's more prep involved for setting up the scene than actually doing the photograph of the item that you're trying to take a picture of, right, right, and it's a dry work job. It's very labor intensive. There's prep involved and then there's teardown right, you've got to get all that stuff like folded back up, put in your car, collect all your equipment. It's not just a one and done thing. It's, you know, a five or six hour span. So you want to make sure that you're charging enough that if you could have taken on two other houses, what's that worth to you? For me that's 800 bucks, right? So it's just. These are things to think about when people ask you hey, can you clean my popcorn ceiling? Yeah.

Speaker 1: 22:16

I love it, that's exactly. I mean I, that's great. I mean boom, there it is. Yeah, I just I normally charge really high, just so that I don't. I mean, and if they take it, woohoo, all right, I guess I'm going to make some really good money.

Speaker 2: 22:42

But it does take me to go back out in the field and do it, though it's an owner-operator job and a pro tip for all of you guys who are listening, because I know you are. When you start to do all of these weird and unusual jobs, you want to make a checklist of items that were needed for that job so that the next time it comes around, all you have to do is go to your computer and say, checklist for popcorn sealing, and all of the items that you needed for that job will be on that checklist, and then you just print it out and you and your girls go. Or if you have cleaning techs who are sophisticated enough to do the job by themselves, you can send them with the checklist. These are the items you need to pick up at the shed or the office or wherever you're operating from, and it just makes it easy peasy. And then I would also make a side note too of how many labor hours it took you and what the total cost was, so you can keep track of it.

Speaker 2: 23:37

Yes, you can go back in Jobber and look, but it's always good to have an extra Excel sheet for how many times you've done it so you can see the variances in the square footage price, so that you're making sure that you're making top dollar on each and every one of these jobs. Just a pro tip, something to think about for the future. So when you start to expand and grow, you can decide that. You know, I'm sorry, I thought I turned my phone off.

Speaker 1: 24:01

Yeah. And then I want to piggyback off of that and say one other thing Honestly, make sure that you let the client make them sign a waiver saying that you are not responsible for any damages that this popcorn ceiling that I'm about to clean. I'm not responsible for the damages, and you've explained that. What could possibly happen, which is you know some stuff, yeah so Definitely.

Speaker 2: 24:35

Well, this one's short and sweet. I just wanted to put that out there because it comes up every spring. I don't know why, but I just wanted to revisit it so that you guys can get some fresh insight on that. I look forward to you guys in the next episode. Take care.